What's the problem?

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by mrstucki

Naysayers? Is that not only you so far? Look at all of the professional sports franchises who have a revolving door for coaches. They are not successful. Coaches change strategies in all sports based on their opponents. Changing formations is not the problem. Execution of the plan is the problem.

The biggest problem with wacking the coach so early is the incredibly large pool of soccer coaches we have in this country.

We are an expansion team. Every player we have was deemed expendable by their former team or are rookies. We have talent, but we don't have dominate the league talent.

We don't know yet if Ellinger is the answer, we don't know yet if Ellinger is the problem. The early part of the expansion season in a sport where the experience of playing together is the second most important aspect of the game behind only talent is not sufficient to judge the merits of a coach.

Make no mistake, I am not saying dump him. I am saying that coaching is the main problem right now. Maybe he can turn it around and become excellent. There were questions about Lombardi in his earliest years at Green Bay too.

I would like to see Mathis and possibly Kreis outta here before Coach E, and realistically none of those before the end of the season if at all. But if someone honestly asks "what is the problem?" I think the answer "coaching" is perfectly reasonible for the reasons given above, and I can give a handful more.

I may be the only one here openly questioning the coaching, but this forum is a very pro-RSL one in a particular way that is not likely to be critical of the FO (this is not a criticism, it is a description, I think there are some very good things about being this way). Talk with other MLS fans, look at other forums, but most of all look at the facts yourself (after all, one solitary man in a crowd can often have the correct answer, even if it is a minority opnion...minority opinions have a funny way of turning into common wisdom).

[Aerick]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

Make no mistake, I am not saying dump him. I am saying that coaching is the main problem right now. Maybe he can turn it around and become excellent. There were questions about Lombardi in his earliest years at Green Bay too.

I would like to see Mathis and possibly Kreis outta here before Coach E, and realistically none of those before the end of the season if at all. But if someone honestly asks "what is the problem?" I think the answer "coaching" is perfectly reasonible for the reasons given above, and I can give a handful more.

I may be the only one here openly questioning the coaching, but this forum is a very pro-RSL one in a particular way that is not likely to be critical of the FO (this is not a criticism, it is a description, I think there are some very good things about being this way). Talk with other MLS fans, look at other forums, but most of all look at the facts yourself (after all, one solitary man in a crowd can often have the correct answer, even if it is a minority opnion...minority opinions have a funny way of turning into common wisdom).

I think I'm going to have to agree with Ska this time. The coach is/should be the driver of the team - if it doesn't go where it's supposed to go, or where people expect it to go, you've got to look at the driver. Sure, maybe some of the passengers aren't positively contributing but like Old Ska said - a whole team of them? Doubtful. Perhaps it's a matter of "laying down the law" and benching people, perhaps something else. Coach E is ultimately in charge of either managing expectations or fulfilling them.

Now, there's the whole thing with his "beginner MLS coach" status, and possibly pressure from the front office one way or the other that could be factor's as well. Therefore, I'm more than willing to give Coach E this season at least to do things well. Problem is, in my opinion, is that we are in an expansion market - and a potentially sensitive one at that. This season is critical, I believe, and if we fail miserably we could lose valuable support. Look at the FC Dallas game after the WCQ. What a HUGE opportunity to get Utahn's excited about this team, and what a huge failure! We can't keep doing that and have RSL be the success story we all want it to be. Heck, if we as Loyalists are discouraged - imagine what the average RSL fan may be thinking right know.

[the Bardguy]

I expect to lose. We are an expansion team and expansion teams generally don't have immediate success.

I do, however, expect to friggin' score. With the lineup we have, so does everyone else. That, I think, is what has been so frustrating.

We have not been playing exciting ball. We appear lethargic and tired. Honestly, how would it hurt the team to start some younger players to build momentum instead of trying to spark the team when we're already down 3 goals. Let the sparks come from the older, more experienced players who have been told that their starting jobs are gone.

Maybe we'll get more people in the seats Wednesday just to see an MLS record fall midway through the 1st half. Do we stand up and cheer when minute 537 passes and we still haven't scored?

[Stucki]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you have done any coaching? There are some things that Coach has done, that I'm not sure about, however most coaching decisions are based on what is seen in practice. Sometimes you keep putting players out there because there are no other options.

I don't think it is so much being pro fo as it is being realistic in what we can expect this first year. Most of the statements made by the fo in terms of being competitive this year were statements designed to sell tickets.

As good as The Pope is, he was considered expendable by the Metrostars. We may not have as much talent as we had thought.

Our problems on the field go way beyond coaching.

By the way, there were UCLA boosters that wanted Wooden fired before his run of success.

All I am saying is that blaming the coach is way premature.

[Rover]

I'm as frustrated as any RSL fan. After Barrett ran unmarked into the box to touch in the third goal yesterday, I was questioning everything from the 3-5-2 to our team colors. That's what fans do. When you care about the result, you're not pleased when the results aren't good.

However, I've watched too much sports over the years to believe that anything other than a strong organization and quality people from top to bottom produce truly winning clubs. Personally, I'm for developing a club that will have sustained success. Sure I'd like that to start now, but realistically a first year team is going to struggle against established clubs. Makes the '98 Fire look even better. Come to think of it, we sure could use a Nowak on RSL right now.

The fact with RSL is that after a few games, the other MLS coaches--who are not stupid--have figured out how to play us. And we don't have the starting eleven or deep bench to be favored against any MLS team except, well, that other expansion team.

We have some players who are very limited, and we have others who are not producing up to their ability. Those are the problems that have to be fixed for us to develop a truly competitive team.

If there is one area that troubles me most beyond the basic tactical stuff, it's the fact that we're still talking about a lack of effort by too many players. When I think of teams that I respect, inevitably they have a "never-quit" attitude and are always looking to attack. Needless to say, that doesn't describe RSL at the moment.

Coach Ellinger didn't suddenly become a bad coach. We don't yet know if he can find the right combination to make this team's chemistry work. My sense is that he will, but I think he should get at least another season to work it out. Why? Because dumping coaches after less than half a season is not the mark of a good organization. Of course, losing five in a row without scoring a goal isn't either.

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by mrstucki

Just out of curiosity, how many of you have done any coaching?

I have.

[SoccerPrime]

[R]
I'll be really honest here: I was looking at the poll trying to figure out if it gave me more then 1 choice.
Seriously, we have probs with our wings, air attack, chemistry and definitely "other".

But with that said, I also feel we are the expansion team with cast offs. Chicago 98 was great, but it was a fluke. No expansion team wins it in the first year (in any sport really, except Chicago 98). So lets compare ourselves to ourselves, instead of one nice but glaring fluke from 1998.

And as for this week's SJ match, even the mighty undefeated Revs got smacked twice in 1 minute against DC this weekend. Oh and now they are not undefeated anymore. Happens to the best of them.

[Aerick]

Originally Posted by Rover

Coach Ellinger didn't suddenly become a bad coach. We don't yet know if he can find the right combination to make this team's chemistry work. My sense is that he will, but I think he should get at least another season to work it out. Why? Because dumping coaches after less than half a season is not the mark of a good organization. Of course, losing five in a row without scoring a goal isn't either.

I agree that we don't kick a coach out half way through the season. In fact, I still wanted Gary Crowton to coach for BYU this season - that's how far I'm willing to let a coach continue to try and do something. However, we have a highly sensitive situation here with RSL and MLS in Utah - so I think it warrants a look from that perspective, in that if things don't happen, and happen quickly, we may NEED change in order to keep momentum or lose it entirely.

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by Aerick

I agree that we don't kick a coach out half way through the season. In fact, I still wanted Gary Crowton to coach for BYU this season - that's how far I'm willing to let a coach continue to try and do something. However, we have a highly sensitive situation here with RSL and MLS in Utah - so I think it warrants a look from that perspective, in that if things don't happen, and happen quickly, we may NEED change in order to keep momentum or lose it entirely.

You have it dead on. (Except for wanting Crowton still around...that guy was a horrible coach, BYU has never had a bigger embarassment off the field and just for that he should have gotten booted...add on the many on-field embarassments and his sacking was inevitable...and I suffered as a Packer fan under Ray Rhodes!) I have not seen anyone calling for Coach E to be fired midseason.

I think the Utah fan base is more sophisticated about MLS than most people give them credit for. When I look at past attendance #s I am struck by how the home attendance was higher for teams worth seeing than for crummy teams (12,500 for the Chivas match, 16,200 for San Jose, 17,800 for Chicago, 18,600 for LA). LA is definately a marquee team, and if attendance falls much below the 12,000 level for this next game we have a pretty good indicator that the fans in Utah are not going to be very welcoming of a losing team. 15 - 18k attendance would show that there is strong support for Real no matter how bad they are. (For the knowledgable soccer fan to have any real concerns the average attendance would have to really slip down, but it is not the perceptions of the knowledgable MLS fan that counts the most here.)

But...a little (or maybe a whole lot of) public pressure on Ellinger would be a good thing, imho. Whether that comes from the FO (which while it may be happening we have not seen publicly yet), the media (who I suspect is not soccer savy enough in general to see the relationship between our current scoring/winning woes and the coaching), or the fans (which may come in the form of declining attendance, lets hope not, or speaking out that the current situation is not acceptable either in the media or by actions like the bags over the heads) is unimportant to me.

I look back on my statement a few weeks ago that anything less than a road win and at least a tie at home in June would be a failure for Coach E. That was overly optimistic. In all seriousness, what I want to see now is a goal. Just a goal.

[montgjules]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

if attendance falls much below the 12,000 level for this next game we have a pretty good indicator that the fans in Utah are not going to be very welcoming of a losing team. 15 - 18k attendance would show that there is strong support for Real no matter how bad they are. (For the knowledgable soccer fan to have any real concerns the average attendance would have to really slip down, but it is not the perceptions of the knowledgable MLS fan that counts the most here.)

Yeah, but Wednesday games have typically drawn smaller crowds (the Catolica game was our smallest crowd yet and that's not officially recorded on the MLS website. Keep that in mind.