Barcelona vs. Arsenal [R] Champions League Final 5/17/06

[Aero]

Originally Posted by dysko

No they all were wearing jerseys yesterday, only one got caught and was replaced.

Ain't that the truth. I'm not sure if that game could have been reffed any more one-sided. I thought I saw a red and blue piece of fabric coming out from underneath his ref's shirt.

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Rover

I see no legit argument with the red card.

Then you haven't been paying attention to the way countless other games have been reffed. Every single other professional foul always gets a yellow. I can give example after example of that happening. How many can you come up with where a professional foul results in a red card. Horrible call! You don't start giving out red cards for professional fouls in the biggest club game of the year. Talk about deciding the game for one team. They definitely missed him with his Barcelona jersey on earlier.

How many yellows did Arsenal receive compared to Barcelona? They got them even when they committed a clean tackle and then got tripped over. On the other hand, the Barcelona player got to pull down players from behind on breakaways three times before he finally got one.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Rover

OK, can't let this go. The poor officiating was across the board. I see no legit argument with the red card. The only beef I have with that call is that it should have been 1-0 Barca on advantage.

Did you watch the same match as the rest of us? Did you see the yellow card that was given to Henry? Apparently Henry did not appear grateful enough to be stepped on by the Barca player so the ref gave him a card for lack of appreciaition for the refs ignorance.

Two barcelona players were given yellow cards while Arsenal players were living in fear of being within ten feet of a Barca player... and with good reason...

That ref was total :pooh:

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Rover

Was the keeper the last defender? Think about it.

Still doesn't matter. Keepers do that all the time and only get yellow cards. All the time.

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Rover

I respectfully disagree with your assessment and conclusion. I've been watching/playing/coaching/officiating soccer for 30 years and I've seen it numerous times.

I've been watching/playing/coaching/officiating soccer for 30 years myself (although I'm not sure what that has to do with anything at all) and for every time you see a goalkeeper given a red card in those circumstances, you'll see 6 where he is only given a yellow.

Besides, numerous is hardly a ringing endorsement for 30 years of soccer anyway. How many times have you seen the goalkeeper only get a yellow card?

Here's the justification to back up the official today:

Law 12 (Fouls and Misconduct) under "Sending Off Offences":


A player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

5. denies an obvious goalscoring opportunity to an opponent moving toward the player's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick.

The key here is that Eto'o was moving toward the goal with the ball when Lehman clipped him. That's an offence (Brit spelling in the LOTG) punishable by a free kick and thus it qualifies since by doing so Lehman denied an obvious goalscoring opportunity.

I'm not saying that according to a strict interpretation of the rules that he couldn't have been sent off. I'm saying that more often than not, goalkeepers are only given yellow cards in those situations. This was not the time to deviate from that general direction. Almost every time a goalkeeper takes down a forward he is the last man taking down someone with a goal scoring opportunity, yet rarely is a red card given. Not a single person would have complained if he had only received a yellow instead of a red.

In fact, this was the first time anyone has been sent off in a Champion's League Final. Do you honestly believe it is the first time a player has been taken down under similiar circumstances?

One more thing, if Lehmann denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity, how come Barcelona put it in the back of the net? He didn't deny anything. The ref made bad calls all the way around on this one.

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Rover

I'm done. If everyone wants to disagree with me about this, fine. I'm confident I'm interpreting the LOTG properly.

I'm sure you are done, but I'm curious why you failed to answer my question about how many times you've seen a goalkeeper take a forward down and only receive a yellow card. I'll tell you why, it's because you know that despite your strict adherence to the rules as written, they are very seldom interpreted that way when goalkeepers are involved. You don't want to admit that at all because you know it ruins your whole argument. The rules aren't always interpreted exactly as written. Despite the rule, goalkeepers are seldom shown red cards for doing what Lehmann did.

This is just like the rule where you kick the ball out of bounds and then play it back to the other team when a player is injured. That isn't written in the rule book, but it might as well be. Try not doing it sometime and scoring a goal because of it and see what happens.

You are blind if you think that sometimes tradition doesn't take precedence over a strict interpretation of the rules. I'm surprised with your 30+ years of experience you don't know that by now.

[Deuce]

Originally Posted by Rover

Henry's yellow was bogus. That was obvious. But I saw plenty of noncalls on Campbell as he beat up Barca attackers routinely.

I was most definitely watching the same match as the rest of you. And I'm quite sure I know what I'm talking about.

Well we will have to agree to disagree then cos i thought the ref was crap... I am both an Arsenal fan and a Barcelona fan so I am not acting out of some misguided loyalty to the gunners... I actually thought the ref was crap and that the majority of his calls favoured Barcelona, for whatever reason...

[dysko]

Originally Posted by Rover

I'm done. If everyone wants to disagree with me about this, fine. I'm confident I'm interpreting the LOTG properly.

I don't believe anyone is questioning the interpretation you have made as valid...

Originally Posted by Aero

I'm not saying that according to a strict interpretation of the rules that he couldn't have been sent off. I'm saying that more often than not, goalkeepers are only given yellow cards in those situations. This was not the time to deviate from that general direction.

However, the last part of what Aero said is very true. This was a less than ideal time to decide to vary from what is generally accepted by officials, FIFA, players, clubs and fans, as acceptable play.

Such a game changing call should have precident behind it when it occures in a game of this magnatude.

Was the call technically correct, absolutly! But that doesn't make it the appropiate call in my mind.

[fuegote]

not to compare a championship league final to MLS but the last time I saw this happen was when Nolley was between the pipes against DC united. The DC forward had a shot at the goal and Nolley was the only person left to defend him.

Nolly tackled him and only got a yellow when by the rules he could have received a red.

I know it's just MLS, but...

[I_Believe_In_Kreis]

I think this comes down to a disagreement over spirit of the law vs. letter of the law. Without presenting my "soccer credentials," let me say based on my experience I thought the game was poorly officiated. Not that your point of view is wrong, Rover.....you definitely have a case for a red card. However I'd just like to see things enforced consistently.

Case in point: The cliched play where the ball is rolling towards the touch line and the defender uses his body to prevent the attacker from touching the ball until it rolls out. The letter of the law says this is obstruction because the defender is not in possession. But it never gets called. That's where the spirit of the law comes in.

Neither of you are wrong, just looking at it differently. But I do think Aero's point of view is what you're more likely to see in today's soccer landscape.