Clint Mathis

[RSLfrontrowfan]

Originally Posted by montgjules

Amen!

Amen to your amen!

[huntingfool12]

umm... i think that is any fans anywhere. You just dont here about it as much because your not in their state. Mathis hasn't got the job done lately he is paid $400,000 a year for a reason to score goals and make goals happen. I hope he comes back after this game fired up and earns his money

[DadOf8]

You're right, Kreiss is the captain. I screwed up. But Mathis is a leader on the team, you can't dispute that. I think my point is still a valid one despite my error.

[Stucki]

Originally Posted by DadOf8

You're right, Kreiss is the captain. I screwed up. But Mathis is a leader on the team, you can't dispute that. I think my point is still a valid one despite my error.

I can go with that. We have to stop playing him up front in tandem with Washington. We need to pair him with Cila or Watson. He always plays better with strikers that can run.

[Old Ska]

Dadof8, would you comment on Mathis through the years? What do you think of his consistant problems with coaches and teammates, for example? What do you attribute the Hannover 96 fiasco to? Who was to blame for a former coach saying that he needs psychiatric help? (The coach, Octavio Zambrano, later said that while he believes that to be true, he regreted saying it in public.) Are you truly comfortable with his very close relationship with Coach E? Is he on this team for any reason except coach E?

The argument that we should not bench one of our most highly paid players because he is highly paid, to use a quote, makes reason stare. Granted, 400k is a ton of money (20,000 $20 tickets), but to keep playing someone who is not producing for that reason seems absurd to me. If we weren't coming off of the longest team scoreless streak in MLS history people might be willing to give him a chance. But are you aware that while 530+ scoreless minutes is terrible for a team, it is also terrible for many of the star players in MLS?

Pele would always put butts in seats. (And I am not certain whether Pele had bad spells as bad as Mathis', you will have to educate me on that one.) Is there any evidence Mathis is a draw like that? On the contrary, a Wed night game drew over 15,000 people (a truly remarkable number!) who knew they weren't going to see Mathis.

In the early years his odd behavior came with great play and a lot of goals, and so you could look past the one because the other made up for it. He had months in the past where he scored a goal per match. Now we have a team with Mathis who gets the longest scoreless streak in MLS history, but beats it when Mathis doesn't start.

Honestly, I can appreciate the color of the guy and I like following him. He is amusing...the tattoos, the wild antics, the stripper girlfriends. (Of course, I have a guy in my office that I enjoy having around for basically the same reason...and he doesn't cost 400k/year.) I don't like Mathis on a team I care about however...especially when he is not producing.

I can't speak to the larger issues you bring up with Utah sports fans but Crowton was terrible. He was a horrible football coach, and especially bad as a BYU football coach who is responsible for players behavior in a way not required at other schools. If anything Crowton was lucky he lasted as long as he did.

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by DadOf8

You're right, Kreiss is the captain. I screwed up. But Mathis is a leader on the team, you can't dispute that. I think my point is still a valid one despite my error.

I don't think so. Only a captain is supposed to interact with the refs. Everytime Mathis does that he risks a card.

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

I don't think so. Only a captain is supposed to interact with the refs. Everytime Mathis does that he risks a card.

I wish that they would make Clint captian for this very reason. He might be able to get away with some of the stuff that has earned him yellow cards in the past.

[DadOf8]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

Dadof8, would you comment on Mathis through the years?

Old Ska, I will reply to this either tonight or tomorrow. But from what I've read about Mathis he doesn't have problems with all his team mates. He and Steve Cherundolo are good friends and there are more examples, not just this one. He said that he didn't like Germany because he didn't know anyone there and because his coach was a defensive minded coach and didn't take advantage of Clint's skills. His Coach said he's a head case, but I still find no evidence to support that he's in serious need of psychiatric help. I don't know if it's true about him dating strippers or not. Probably so, I wont let him date any of my daughters then. I could care less if the guy has tatoos. While I personally don't agree with tatoos, to each his own and far be it for me to tell someone how to decorate their body.

My argument never was that we should play him because we're wasting money if we don't. My argument is that we should play him because he's a catalist for good things and the point I was trying to make is why would a team spend that much on him if he weren't worth it? I've gone to a couple of games this year where the crowd and team weren't in the game until Cleetus started arguing with the refs.

Yes, Mathis is on the team because he knows John Elinger and respects him. You have got to suspect that Mathis is disappointed in his own performance and wants dearly to score one for a coach he respects and admires.

I've lost my cool with people too, does that make me a head case? It's very easy to put labels on people when we don't understand where they're coming from. You describe Cleetus' behavior as being out of control and volatile. I describe it as being passionate and having a desire to win at all times. Don't you think that Clint's just as mad about not scoring as you are?

I wish Clint could come on here and defend himself but I doubt he really has the time or energy for it. What I do think is that Elinger should sit down with him, if he hasn't already, and set goals with him on how many goals he wants to score etc. and then hold him to it. If Clint can't live up to the goals he sets with his coach, then maybe team and player should part ways.

Another argument I'm hearing is that Mathis' behaviour is okay as long as he's scoring goals. That's like the argument some teams (Spurs, Pistons) used with Rodman. The thing is, Mathis is not at all like Rodman. I have yet to see Mathis do something dirty on the pitch. We're not reading stories in the paper about his sordid lifestyle.

Like I said, I will respond to each one of your points later on, but these are my feeling on it so far.

[Old Ska]

Well, I bring those issues up just to see that you have a full perspective on him. You seem to, and I think that what we have here is a legitimate difference of opinion. I can respect that.

I'll be very interested to see what Coach E does this weekend. I'll bet he won't even know until shortly before match-time.

Originally Posted by DadOf8

Old Ska, I will reply to this either tonight or tomorrow. But from what I've read about Mathis he doesn't have problems with all his team mates. He and Steve Cherundolo are good friends and there are more examples, not just this one. He said that he didn't like Germany because he didn't know anyone there and because his coach was a defensive minded coach and didn't take advantage of Clint's skills. His Coach said he's a head case, but I still find no evidence to support that he's in serious need of psychiatric help. I don't know if it's true about him dating strippers or not. Probably so, I wont let him date any of my daughters then. I could care less if the guy has tatoos. While I personally don't agree with tatoos, to each his own and far be it for me to tell someone how to decorate their body.

My argument never was that we should play him because we're wasting money if we don't. My argument is that we should play him because he's a catalist for good things and the point I was trying to make is why would a team spend that much on him if he weren't worth it? I've gone to a couple of games this year where the crowd and team weren't in the game until Cleetus started arguing with the refs.

Yes, Mathis is on the team because he knows John Elinger and respects him. You have got to suspect that Mathis is disappointed in his own performance and wants dearly to score one for a coach he respects and admires.

I've lost my cool with people too, does that make me a head case? It's very easy to put labels on people when we don't understand where they're coming from. You describe Cleetus' behavior as being out of control and volatile. I describe it as being passionate and having a desire to win at all times. Don't you think that Clint's just as mad about not scoring as you are?

I wish Clint could come on here and defend himself but I doubt he really has the time or energy for it. What I do think is that Elinger should sit down with him, if he hasn't already, and set goals with him on how many goals he wants to score etc. and then hold him to it. If Clint can't live up to the goals he sets with his coach, then maybe team and player should part ways.

Another argument I'm hearing is that Mathis' behaviour is okay as long as he's scoring goals. That's like the argument some teams (Spurs, Pistons) used with Rodman. The thing is, Mathis is not at all like Rodman. I have yet to see Mathis do something dirty on the pitch. We're not reading stories in the paper about his sordid lifestyle.

Like I said, I will respond to each one of your points later on, but these are my feeling on it so far.

[freedom]

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Mark Connolly did this piece on Mathis today (I think).

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=336018&cc=5901