ReAL Sandy? Make Me Sick!!!!

clarette · 10-14-2005, 08:27 AM

I swear to Bergkamp I'm going to have nightmares about that thing.

MomOf8 · 10-14-2005, 09:03 AM

Now it all makes sense. Toilet bowls for the Crapids, because you take a crap in a toilet bowl. At least civilized people do 😉 Sheeeesh, I hate it when it takes me longer to catch on than normal.

Jose Luis Luviano · 10-14-2005, 09:19 AM

Some Mexican League teams have cheerleaders.

But I am pretty sure that they go back into the stands during the game itself.

oussan · 10-14-2005, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sctn37:20

...When Real Salt Lake was first announced I seem to remember them talking about how it was huge for the Hispanic community...

Now, where is the Hispanic community located? Areas like Rose Park and West Valley. I know they are going to build a Traxx station at 9400 South and it is going to be 'oh so wonderful', but where are the Traxx stations from the West Side? They are not going to be built until years after the stadium.

The whole 'Sandy is still in Salt Lake County' is also a cop out. Teams are not named for their counties. They are named after the cities they represent or the State. I am pretty sure when they named the team Real Salt Lake they weren't thinking it was because the county is Salt Lake. It was because Salt Lake City is THE CITY in Utah. It is where tourists come to visit. They come for conventions and other activities in Utah and when they are here they go visit the Temple, the Capitol, and other historic sites downtown. They eat at classy restaurants downtown. They don't go to sandy to eat at the Mayan that is for sure.

I gotta take issue with a couple of points here.

1a. The hispanic community is not located solely in WVC, Rose Park, etc. Check out Historic Midvale district around the Midvale Center TRAX Station (two stops north of the future 9400 South Station) and you will find a very attractive neighborhood comprised mainly of Mexican (I think) businesses. Not to mention the huge Cinco de Mayo celebration that Midvale puts on each year. There are also plenty of hispanic families living in my Sandy neighborhood. I just don't think a move to Sandy will alienate the hispanic fan base... especially when Chivas comes to town!

1b. And I totally agree that there are no TRAX lines branching out to WVC. It appears the next leg to be built will be from Midvale to South Jordan. They've been studying and planning a WVC extension for years now. I guess the Mid-Jordan leg will be constructed first simply because the rails already exist. I do, however, think it's a crying shame that light rail hasn't reached out to the state's second most populous city yet.

2. I respect your opinion that the team is named for the city, but I disagree. I guess we should ask the guys in charge to settle the issue, because I've said before that I think it's named not for the city, nor for the county, nor for the valley... but rather for the entire greater Salt Lake region. That's my opinion, though. I could be wrong.

3. True, SLC is the number one tourist attraction in the state, or more specifically, Temple Square is (with Library Square apparently fast on its heels). Still, Sandy has proven itself to be an attraction of its own. Jordan Commons regularly sets national box office records for movie openings, and South Towne Expo has proven to be such a draw that both a new TRAX stop and a parking structure have been requisitioned.

4. And the Mayan, silly as it may be, still finds diners. There must be something to it, too. 🙂

Scilaci · 10-14-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oussan

I gotta take issue with a couple of points here.

1a. The hispanic community is not located solely in WVC, Rose Park, etc. Check out Historic Midvale district around the Midvale Center TRAX Station (two stops north of the future 9400 South Station) and you will find a very attractive neighborhood comprised mainly of Mexican (I think) businesses. Not to mention the huge Cinco de Mayo celebration that Midvale puts on each year. There are also plenty of hispanic families living in my Sandy neighborhood. I just don't think a move to Sandy will alienate the hispanic fan base... especially when Chivas comes to town!

1b. And I totally agree that there are no TRAX lines branching out to WVC. It appears the next leg to be built will be from Midvale to South Jordan. They've been studying and planning a WVC extension for years now. I guess the Mid-Jordan leg will be constructed first simply because the rails already exist. I do, however, think it's a crying shame that light rail hasn't reached out to the state's second most populous city yet.

2. I respect your opinion that the team is named for the city, but I disagree. I guess we should ask the guys in charge to settle the issue, because I've said before that I think it's named not for the city, nor for the county, nor for the valley... but rather for the entire greater Salt Lake region. That's my opinion, though. I could be wrong.

3. True, SLC is the number one tourist attraction in the state, or more specifically, Temple Square is (with Library Square apparently fast on its heels). Still, Sandy has proven itself to be an attraction of its own. Jordan Commons regularly sets national box office records for movie openings, and South Towne Expo has proven to be such a draw that both a new TRAX stop and a parking structure have been requisitioned.

4. And the Mayan, silly as it may be, still finds diners. There must be something to it, too. 🙂

Excellent points.

🕺

aosthed · 10-14-2005, 11:34 PM

At some point the emotion of this issue must die down for the 98% reasonable and rational participants in the debate.

There is no point to devisiveness... What is the outcome AT THIS POINT of any challenge or harrassment of the Sandy selection? 1) NOTHING will now make it happen in downtown SLC, and 2) the erosion of support for Sandy location could only possibly jeopardize getting a stadium altogether.

Frankly, dissent at this point is only to soothe egos ex post facto and has no possible positive for any party interested in the well-being of the team - ONLY to soothe their need for vocalizing (every American's intrinsic right ).

To dispel some notions:

1) MLS Teams named after cities (or states) -
LA Galaxy reside not in the City of Los Angeles but only in LA COUNTY
FC Dallas does not reside in the city of Dallas
Chivas USA is named after the country it resides in
New England is neither a city or a state, but a region of the US
Chicago will be in Bridgeview - just outside Chicago city limits
Metrostars are in Harrison NJ (they still claim to represent the greater NY/NJ area)
Real Salt Lake is named not for the city but the greater metropolitan area
Columbus has a stadium MUCH more on the outskirst of their metro area than Salt Lake YET they have been a solid attendance performer... The dropoff in attendance is not related to the location (as 9 solid years preceding 2005 would indicate) but rather fan frustration with team performance
8 out of 12 clearly do not follow the pattern.

2) Sandy is a fiscally worse decision (short-erm OR long-term than Salt Lake)
Anyone who understand how financing works should understand the impact of an additional $15 million land cost (even as a long-term financed cost) for a team with an operating budget of approximately $5 million.
There is no basis for additional attendance OR related revenues associated WITH placing a team in downtown Salt Lake - in fact, the opposite because of it's limited space and relative (to Sandy) high costs. The desire for a downtown location is EMOTIONAL only. (I shared the emotional preference for downtown, but now that it is done it's a moot point - and you have to admit, it's going to be one helluva stadium!)

3) Utah is becoming like California
Demographers estimate that by 2025 (in 20 years) Salt Lake county will go from roughly 800,000 inhabitants to 1.6 million (double). Sorry, but this does not make us even CLOSE to SoCal/NoCal population densities per square mile or in terms of overall population. Salt Lake County can EASILY bear this growth with some planning - a couple of freeways in the next 20 years takes care of most of the travel congestion. FWIW, most growth will occur in the South & West parts of the valley (where the space is)... The stadium is being put where the people are coming.
Obviously the Wasatch Front needs to plan better for growth BUT PLACING A STADIUM DOWNTOWN in an already densely populated congested area is the OPPOSITE of what to do... Instead, spread out attractions through out the area to REDUCE the need for all people to go to just one area of the valley for entertainment.

4) Putting the stadium in Sandy will cater to the soccer mom crowd.
Sandy is central to the southern county soccer explosion that is YOUTH soccer. It's incredibly mature and competitive in the South Valley... Anyone who thinks the "suburbs" of Salt Lake are as remote as the suburbs of a truly large city are spacially challenged. Sandy is 90 blocks from downtown (in a straight line - roughly 12 miles)... this is nothing in terms of commuting or travel. Better yet, travel times are ridiculously short from any two points within the Salt Lake Valley - in Orange County it took me 45 min AT BEST to travel the 91 14 miles from Katella to Weir Canyon Rd... This was considered a relatively good (as in short) commute for SoCal.
I can go from my house (using the Bangerter Hwy freeway entrance) to RES in 25-30 min on gamedays. The reverse is just as easy.

FWIW, I thought the Sandy location would be underwhelming but when I see what Checketts and Co. have in mind for the 22 acres I think it's genius! Just like Larry Miller did with old Jordan Highschool to make it Jordan Commons... he MADE it a destination - just like the Real Stadium complex will become in Sandy.

5) E Center an example of why Sandy location is bad.
Prior to the E center there was nothing in that area - the Sandy area is already undergoing a steady development and expansion. It has so many synergistic areas around it that the E center did/does not have... and for most the E Center IS a success - despite minor league hockey's failure there.
To all those who compare minor league hockey's failure with RSL's potential problems with Sandy ... all I can say is - aren't we lucky we didn't base the 3,000 avg. attendance numbers of the Blitzz on RSL future potential? (there is a big difference between Minor and Major league - even with MLS).

Ultimately, there is a reason Checketts is a millionaire and a success many times over - he is one of the great American sports success stories. End of story. To presume to have more insight into his decision with less facts than he had, less capabilty than he has, less money than he has, less political savy/connections/clout than he has, is either naive and/or stupid. I think he's proven he knows what he's doing enough times that I won't presume to second guess how he spends his money.

End of rant. 🙂

Rover · 10-15-2005, 12:43 AM

Well, OK. I do believe you have all the bases covered.

I happen to agree with all of it.

Section 37 · 10-15-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aosthed

3) Utah is becoming like California
Demographers estimate that by 2025 (in 20 years) Salt Lake county will go from roughly 800,000 inhabitants to 1.6 million (double). Sorry, but this does not make us even CLOSE to SoCal/NoCal population densities per square mile or in terms of overall population. Salt Lake County can EASILY bear this growth with some planning - a couple of freeways in the next 20 years takes care of most of the travel congestion. FWIW, most growth will occur in the South & West parts of the valley (where the space is)... The stadium is being put where the people are coming.
Obviously the Wasatch Front needs to plan better for growth BUT PLACING A STADIUM DOWNTOWN in an already densely populated congested area is the OPPOSITE of what to do... Instead, spread out attractions through out the area to REDUCE the need for all people to go to just one area of the valley for entertainment.

Don't look now, but you just proved the point about us becoming like L.A.. It's a spiral downward that is gripping western cities in general. Line em up. Las Vegas, Phoenix, Salt Lake.

"A couple of freeways" etc. etc. Is MISSING THE POINT and exactly how L.A. got to where it is.

Also, you say the wasatch front needs to plan better for growth. What does that mean? We are constantly making plans for growth. That's most of what politicians do. The problem is

City officials believe proper planning is building whatever will deliver the largest amount of tax revenue (home depot, walmart, etc. basically thegravel pit debate)

and state officials believe proper planning is building whatever will bring in the largest amount of federal dollars. This is always freeways. Freeways bring in huge amounts of federal dollars.

So, we get malls and freeways as our "visionary" and "inspired" planning.

Sounds like L.A. to me.

Section 37 · 10-15-2005, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aosthed

Frankly, dissent at this point is only to soothe egos ex post facto and has no possible positive for any party interested in the well-being of the team - ONLY to soothe their need for vocalizing (every American's intrinsic right ).

Are you sure everyone dissenting is just soothing their ego?

Or are they participating in an ongoing debate because they feel passionate about it. I seem to remember Steve Pastorino encouraging people to voice their own opinions and not just go along to get along.

We're all investing a lot of money in this team.

Tax money, ticket money, merchandise, sponsor patronage. I don't understand the virtue in silencing ourselves just because other fans do.

After all, a 25000 seat stadium means there's room for everyone, not just those willing to be quiet.

Section 37 · 10-15-2005, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aosthed

There is no point to devisiveness... What is the outcome AT THIS POINT of any challenge or harrassment of the Sandy selection? 1) NOTHING will now make it happen in downtown SLC, and 2) the erosion of support for Sandy location could only possibly jeopardize getting a stadium altogether.

I don't see this as a divisiveness issue. We disagree on everything. Keep Mathis/ Don't keep Mathis. Start Jamie/ Don't start Jamie. Play this formation/ Don't play this formation.

None of those things are "divisive". I think we have to steer clear of making personal attacks and generalizations. But I don't think this whole debate has been divisive.

On the contrary, I think it has brought us together because we can see and understand that we are all very different yet cheer for the same team for the same reasons. I think there is a profound lesson to be learned here. It would be lost if we all just stayed quiet.