ReAL Sandy? Make Me Sick!!!!

[oussan]

I've been thinking lately about all the negativity towards Sandy and it just makes me laugh. What other states' second and fourth largest cities are still only regarded as suburbs? WVC is larger than both Ogden and Provo and yet is still considered (by and large) a suburb of SLC. Sandy can't seem to shake the moniker either - regardless of the fact that neither Sandy nor WVC can really be considered bedroom communities anymore. What, then, is a suburb and why do Salt Lakers fear (and yet depend upon) them so much?

[Section 37]

Originally Posted by oussan

I've been thinking lately about all the negativity towards Sandy and it just makes me laugh. What other states' second and fourth largest cities are still only regarded as suburbs? WVC is larger than both Ogden and Provo and yet is still considered (by and large) a suburb of SLC. Sandy can't seem to shake the moniker either - regardless of the fact that neither Sandy nor WVC can really be considered bedroom communities anymore. What, then, is a suburb and why do Salt Lakers fear (and yet depend upon) them so much?

They're relegated to suburb because they can't stand on their own. If they don't want to be a suburb, then they need to employ their people within the boundaries of their city. It's just the reality of the situation. They're suburbs in this state and in all states where you have hundreds of thousands of people living outside the boundaries of the city in which they work.

[Section 37]

Originally Posted by Aerick

Alot of this is politics, and politicians trying to posture and make sure they look good in the face of this issue. They know that some people are upset about what's going on, and this either gives them an opportunity to show that they are the friends of those who feel slighted, or to try cover up or redirect focus on the problems they helped cause by not allowing RSL to legitimately look at downtown as the eventual location for the stadium.

That is an interesting point

Originally Posted by Aerick

Continued public opinion in the form of "The Sandy deal was unethical and should be investigated and/or made to be unjustified" CAN AND WILL cause problems for RSL... So those of us that are fans of RSL would do better to bite our tongues and rally behind RSL's decision so as to help influence public opinion in a manner that HELPS RSL, not hinders it.

There are no RSL fans pulling the strings at the county. Nor are politicians reading this forum trying to come up with ideas.

The fact is this is a 65+ million dollar project (and climbing) and people pay attention to that kind of money. It's not anyone's fault. No one is trying to sink RSL. There isn't a single county in the entire U.S. that would bite its tongue over that kind of money.

There's good reason for that.

This is an ongoing thing and it's going to be discussed throughout the county and people are going to voice their opinions in many places. If no one wants the topic to be addressed on this forum, that's one thing. It's something ultimately Neil probably has the final say over.

But I don't see how refusing to discuss the issue will help save the stadium politically.

[Stucki]

Originally Posted by Section 37

That is an interesting point



There are no RSL fans pulling the strings at the county. Nor are politicians reading this forum trying to come up with ideas.

The fact is this is a 65+ million dollar project (and climbing) and people pay attention to that kind of money. It's not anyone's fault. No one is trying to sink RSL. There isn't a single county in the entire U.S. that would bite its tongue over that kind of money.

There's good reason for that.

This is an ongoing thing and it's going to be discussed throughout the county and people are going to voice their opinions in many places. If no one wants the topic to be addressed on this forum, that's one thing. It's something ultimately Neil probably has the final say over.

But I don't see how refusing to discuss the issue will help save the stadium politically.

I'm not sure why you think the stadium is in trouble politically. Uncle Dave has said the stadium will be funded privately. Their may be some tax breaks after the fact, but the stadium won't be built with initial public money. The 18 million is still going to be used to build a parking structure, just not the one originally envisioned. When you have the Republican leadership of the state legislature behind it, it isn't in trouble.

[Sctn37:20]

If I were to give my kid 30k for school and he told me he was going to Yale. He better be damned sure he finds his way there. The kid would be a lying con artist if he went to some community college with my money and then bought a car. Sure I would want my kid to be happy, but if I gave him money under the pretense that he was going to Yale and then he spent my money somewhere else without telling me I would be pissed.

Lettin your kid be happy is one thing, but letting your kid do what he wants so he can 'be happy' is ludicrous. 'My kid is an underage alcoholic and steals money from me, but as long as he is happy I am happy.'

I think the resonsible parent would be ANGRY! That is why Salt Lake has every right to go in and question the whole dirty process and get their money back.

[clarette]

Whether you're over the Sandy decision or still irate, you have to admit that the consistent *****ing in the press by the Salt Lake County (not City) Council doesn't really do a whole lot to promote RSL to the general public.

Whatever happened, it's made some important people, who ostensibly represent the entire county, rather angry.

No, it won't change the attendance decisions of die-hard RSL fans, but it's not the best PR for the team. I'd hate for RSL's stadium be the next Guzzlergate or whatever, you know.

[Aerick]

Originally Posted by clarette

Whether you're over the Sandy decision or still irate, you have to admit that the consistent *****ing in the press by the Salt Lake County (not City) Council doesn't really do a whole lot to promote RSL to the general public.

Whatever happened, it's made some important people, who ostensibly represent the entire county, rather angry.

No, it won't change the attendance decisions of die-hard RSL fans, but it's not the best PR for the team. I'd hate for RSL's stadium be the next Guzzlergate or whatever, you know.

Exactly!!! We need to fight the bad PR with good PR. That's what I was alluding to in my earlier post.

Originally Posted by Sctn37:20

Lettin your kid be happy is one thing, but letting your kid do what he wants so he can 'be happy' is ludicrous. 'My kid is an underage alcoholic and steals money from me, but as long as he is happy I am happy.'

You're misconstruing my words. If the scenario you outline here was indeed the case then sure, any reasonable parent would be upset. But that's not the scenario I originally outlined. In my extension of the original analogy, I indicated that the child (Sandy) not only found a better value for the parent's money, but was also successful with the chosen option and had enough money left over to buy a nice car. Sure, the child did so without asking permission first. But a good parent, while perhaps superficially angry about not being consulted initially would have to be saying "you gotta hand it to the kid, he did pretty well for himself". Of course, this analogy has several inconsistencies when applied more thouroughly to the actual scenario.

[Newkidontheblock]

Originally Posted by aosthed

3) Utah is becoming like California
Demographers estimate that by 2025 (in 20 years) Salt Lake county will go from roughly 800,000 inhabitants to 1.6 million (double). Sorry, but this does not make us even CLOSE to SoCal/NoCal population densities per square mile or in terms of overall population. Salt Lake County can EASILY bear this growth with some planning - a couple of freeways in the next 20 years takes care of most of the travel congestion. FWIW, most growth will occur in the South & West parts of the valley (where the space is)... The stadium is being put where the people are coming.
Obviously the Wasatch Front needs to plan better for growth BUT PLACING A STADIUM DOWNTOWN in an already densely populated congested area is the OPPOSITE of what to do... Instead, spread out attractions through out the area to REDUCE the need for all people to go to just one area of the valley for entertainment.

🙂

I won't get in to all of the reasons that I disagree with your sprawl approach with a couple of freeways, and spreading out the attractions. If you are going to state population figures though, please put something up there besides your best guess.


According to the 2005 baseline population the breakdown is as follows:

Salt Lake County:970,748
Davis County:276,374
Utah County: 453,977
Weber County:212,707
Total for Metro Area:1,913,806

Throw in Tooele and Summit counties with their proximity (both within 35 miles of Salt Lake)
Tooele County:51,835
Summit County:36,417

http://www.governor.utah.gov/dea/Publications/2005Baseline.pdf

[aosthed]

Originally Posted by Newkidontheblock

I won't get in to all of the reasons that I disagree with your sprawl approach with a couple of freeways, and spreading out the attractions. If you are going to state population figures though, please put something up there besides your best guess.


According to the 2005 baseline population the breakdown is as follows:

Salt Lake County:970,748
Davis County:276,374
Utah County: 453,977
Weber County:212,707
Total for Metro Area:1,913,806

Throw in Tooele and Summit counties with their proximity (both within 35 miles of Salt Lake)
Tooele County:51,835
Summit County:36,417

http://www.governor.utah.gov/dea/Publications/2005Baseline.pdf

You notice the word "ROUGHLY" 800,000 for the post... how does another 170,000 change the point significantly? multiply it by 4 and it's still nothing compared to SoCal...

[aosthed]

Originally Posted by Section 37

Are you sure everyone dissenting is just soothing their ego?

Or are they participating in an ongoing debate because they feel passionate about it. I seem to remember Steve Pastorino encouraging people to voice their own opinions and not just go along to get along.

We're all investing a lot of money in this team.

Tax money, ticket money, merchandise, sponsor patronage. I don't understand the virtue in silencing ourselves just because other fans do.

After all, a 25000 seat stadium means there's room for everyone, not just those willing to be quiet.

I'd respond to each individual post - but I don't care enough to spend the time...

My point isn't arguing about it on boards - ROCK ON! Hate it all you want, complain all you want, be down on it all you want on soccer boards.

I think it is STUPID when it goes beyond that (which I'm not sure you are doing - I was making a general statement), when RSL fans go to the point of trying to get their local government leaders to work politically against it... that's what the message is when someone calls their local leaders to complain about the Sandy stadium - they are asking them to try to oppose it (whether directly or indirectly)...

..THAT is what I think is stupid for a soccer fan. SLC may be able to derail Sandy helping in the funding - BUT that won't get the stadium in SLC... it just jeopardizes Sandy's chances and the stadium altogether.