Something has to change

[AreliusIV]

If by next year they are not a 50/50 team the fans will stop coming.

Let me ask: Were you here last year or is this your first year as an RSL supporter? Some of your comments lead me to believe that you didn’t have to endure last year like many of the rest of us.

Still the better leadership decision is to not panic,

I don’t believe I’m panicking. On the contrary, I was here for 32 games last season and I’ve seen 9 so far this season. I haven’t seen anything this season that leads me to believe we are going to see a drastic improvement in the product on the field.

What's it take to build a team from nothing. It takes someone who can take youth and make them into great players. Ellinger is experienced at that.

Wouldn’t a better strategy be to bring in an experienced coach that has already proven he can succeed at the MLS level?

Look at next year.

I don’t want to look at next year. I want to look at right now. Between last year and this year and all through pre-season, we all heard about how much different this year was going to be. Well, I ain’t seeing it…

I would hope that we both agree that if Ellinger doesn’t make the playoffs this year, he’s got to go. In the meantime, I don’t want to have to endure a mediocre product on the field and I certainly want to win games on a consistent basis.

I think the main difference between your view and mine is that you are willing to endure a mediocre year in hopes that the product is better next year. I’m not. I did my enduring last year and more of it this year.

Now for the wager...

It wouldn’t make any sense to wager whether or not Ellinger is fired. I have no inside knowledge as to whether Uncle Dave would actually make a coaching change. I’m more interested in Uncle Dave identifying what needs to be changed and improved now – this year -- so that we can have the world-class product that he expects and wants us to have.

[knowwonnose]

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

Let me ask: Were you here last year or is this your first year as an RSL supporter? Some of your comments lead me to believe that you didn’t have to endure last year like many of the rest of us.

I've been with RSL since the day I heard there would be a team in SLC so you no special knowledge of pain over me.

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

I don’t believe I’m panicking. On the contrary, I’ve was here for 32 games last season and I’ve seen 9 so far this season. I haven’t seen anything this season that leads me to believe we are going to see a drastic improvement in the product on the field.

If you understand building something long term you are. If you're a typical American, then you may not think that you are, but you are.

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

Wouldn’t a better strategy be to bring in an experienced coach that has already proven he can succeed at the MLS level?

Not yet. He'd be fired in a year using your definition of success.

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

I don’t want to look at next year. I want to look at right now. Between last year and this year and all through preseason, we all heard about how much different this year was going to be. Well, I ain’t seeing it…

I would hope that we both agree that if Ellinger doesn’t make the playoffs this year, he’s got to go. In the meantime, I don’t want to have to endure a mediocre product on the field and I certainly want to win games on a consistent basis.

I think the main difference between your view and mine is that you are willing to endure a mediocre year in hopes that the product is better next year. I’m not. I did my enduring last year and more of it this year.

No, we don't agree. At the beginning of the year I figure that he had at best an outside chance at the playoffs. Right now, he's on the inside track. I can only say about this year that his job is to develop the team for the long term? Do you think Bradley has to make the playoffs to save his job? Should every coach who doesn't make the playoffs be fired? Is there any such thing as looking beyond the here and now?

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

It wouldn’t make any sense to wager whether or not Ellinger is fired. I have no inside knowledge as to whether Uncle Dave would actually make a coaching change. I’m more interested in Uncle Dave identifying what needs to be changed and improved now – this year -- so that we can have the world-class product that he expects and wants us to have.

Well I wouldn't wager if I thought you had inside knowledge. I was going off your "writing on the wall" comment in the title of the thread. The signs aren't there. You're creating your own signs up is my hypothesis. I can understand your tentativeness because I assumed you were making this point without fully considering the truth of the situation.

[AreliusIV]

Can a Mod change the title of this thread to "Something has to change." I know a lot of people are tired of the Fire Ellinger posts. My main purpose here not to get Ellinger fired. It is to identify change that needs to occur. I don't want to turn people off because of the title of the thread. I simply want to encourage problem-solving.

[Scholesy]

Just out of curiousity, how do you rate Alex Ferguson as a manager/coach?

[RSLfrontrowfan]

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

... Today RSL had long stretches of very ugly soccer. When are we going to start playing the world class-level soccer that Dave Checkett's envisions? Not likely while Ellinger is coaching RSL.

So the weather, field conditions etc had nothing to do with the quality of soccer played last night? Rather you seem to say it was all Ellinger's fault. Unless Ellinger has power over the elements, I'm not sure how you can blame him.

[Holla at ya boy]

Originally Posted by knowwonnose

I'm sorry that you have lost touch with reality. This is still a young team developing. That's was their goal for the year and it should be understood by the fans. Don't expect a superstar team in the first year. We're still better than Chivas and LA. I refer you to my first post on this subject and this board.

http://realsaltlake.org/forums/showpost.php?p=51470&postcount=9

we are developing with 5 of our starters being over 30?

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Holla at ya boy

we are developing with 5 of our starters being over 30?

Which 5 starters would that be that are over 30? Here's another question for you, how many of the starters are under 25? How many on the substitutes bench are under 25 and how many are over 30?

Answer these questions and you just might see the answer to your question.

[BroncsBomber]

Somebody needs to take away Arelius' belt and shoelaces...

I think he needs to follow a team like Chelski or the Yankees for his own sanity.

[prk166]

While it's a cute comment, I don't think it's fair to imply having some level of expections for the team means that someone's a glory hunter. In the case of RSL, the record speaks for itself. Ellinger should have been fired at the end of last year. Ya sure, it was an expansion team. I wouldn't expect it to do well. But it's not that the team didn't do well, it's how it went from being mediocre to attrocious. They team was a hair away from losing 12 in a row to close out the season. And at that the only reason they didn't was due to the luck of the schedule they faced San Jose's reserve team and that it too a FLUKE goal from Novak to be the difference between a loss and a ties. They did so horrible down the stretch that they nearly beat out Chivas at being the single worst team ever in the history of the MLS.

Look at the results for yourself
http://real.saltlake.mlsnet.com/MLS/schedule/season.jsp?team=rsl&year=2005

They didn't win a game for the last 2 1/2 months of the season. Is it really too much to expect the team to win at least once or twice as the season wound down? And if one really thinks it is, I fail to see how that then becomes glory hunting.

Now every time this year I get msyelf thinking "fire Ellinger" I find myself deciding it's too soon. I can accept management's decision to keep him around in the summer. I disagree with it very strongly. But if they're going to let the guy stick around and rebuild the squad (only 3 starters for the opening game were with RSL last year), they should have patience with it showing some results. I don't really expect the FO to fire him anytime soon. In fact, if they did you all should be more scared by the FO. Short of something extereme and improbable like sexual harrasment, you wouldn't want your leadership at Trolley Square to keep changing it's mind. Playing musical coaches is not a recipe for success.

More so, I don't see who the team would bring in to replace him that would clearly be a better choice. I think it's a case of assuming the pasture in the next valley over has greener grass. That's not to say I don't think there are good canidates. For example, I'd love to see Brian Bliss in charge. But there's nothing Bliss has done that has shown he can do better than Ellinger. Now had we been talking about this last October that wouldn't be true. We could point to Bradley or Sigi. But they're not options right now. And in fact, the other option that some people have supported that has a record as a head coach, Mo Johnston, has barely fared better than Ellinger in his MLS career, especially considering he inherited a much better squad. Instead of having to play play Kamler as a DM, he had natural choices for that like Mark Lisi at his disposal.

While I disagre with Knowwonnose, I do like his optimism and patience. I've seen him over at BigSoccer saying the same things before both this year and last year. And even though I still blurt out an old "fire ellinger" every now and then I want to be patient. Even though rationally I see no reason to have hope for the guy in this capacity for this team, there is a little bit of me that hopes he can pull it off and prove a lot of people around. But I don't think that I it's because Ellinger is a nice guy or anything like that. I just hate to see people fail. And so far that is all Ellinger has been, a failure. 🙁

[knowwonnose]

Originally Posted by prk166

...

While I disagre with Knowwonnose, I do like his optimism and patience. I've seen him over at BigSoccer saying the same things before both this year and last year. And even though I still blurt out an old "fire ellinger" every now and then I want to be patient. Even though rationally I see no reason to have hope for the guy in this capacity for this team, there is a little bit of me that hopes he can pull it off and prove a lot of people around. But I don't think that I it's because Ellinger is a nice guy or anything like that. I just hate to see people fail. And so far that is all Ellinger has been, a failure. 🙁

Of course I still want to be patient, but I'd say this was the best, non-emotional thesis on the "fire Ellinger" issue. I can appreciate this sort of post. It's good to know that some thought is going into the issue beyond emotional outbursts and personal attacks.

I won't say that the day won't ever come to say enough is enough, but until this point all I have heard and seen is that this is a much better team than last year and will win more games. RSL is currently on its longest streak without a lost and I can't believe anyone would want to be hasty in this situation. Further, I really to think this was well planned by the management. I'm not sure why others won't consider the youth development angle. Yes there are some players over 30. That's exactly how you develop youth; place them with mature people who can show them the way for a season or 2.

Anyhow, that was a reasonable post on the Ellinger issue, even for one who I suppose will now be more focused on the Fire FC threads. 🙂