Something has to change

knowwonnose · 05-30-2006, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

What will your views be in we don't qualify for the playoffs this year?

Arelius, I was gain respect for you, but this is such a fatalistic statement.

What will your feeling for Man U be next year when they don't qualify for Euro?

See, you're not willing to accept that because you don't see that's it is reality. In the same way, there is no reason to accept that RSL is doomed to complete failure this season. At this point they are in playoff position. Yes, it is possible that they won't be in October, but you're statement suggests that it is impossible for them to qualify. Don't set yourself up for failure when RSL succeeds.

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

Okay, I answered your question (even though I know it wasn't aimed at me) so I'm asking one back: what will it take for you to modify your views on firing Ellinger? Is there anything he can do at all to change your mind or has he gone past the point of no return for you?

Believe me, I will be ecstatic if we can get at least a .500 record or better.

Aerick · 05-30-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

My first reaction to this question is to say fire him, but I don't even think it will be as simple as that. If it ends up that we are competitive for the rest of the year, improve on our record from last year, and still end up missing the playoffs in a tight race, then I think things have to be looked at then.

If we end the year the same way we ended last year way out of the playoff picture, then I say fire him. But I think it is much too early with the team headed in a good direction to be calling for his head right now.

Okay, I answered your question (even though I know it wasn't aimed at me) so I'm asking one back: what will it take for you to modify your views on firing Ellinger? Is there anything he can do at all to change your mind or has he gone past the point of no return for you?

I was going to answer similarly. I'll evaluate the situation when/if the time comes.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

Believe me, I will be ecstatic if we can get at least a .500 record or better.

I'm sure that there must be some point between "ecstatic" and "fire Ellinger" that is simply acceptable. What will be acceptable to you to stop calling for Ellinger's head?

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

I'm sure that there must be some point between "ecstatic" and "fire Ellinger" that is simply acceptable. What will be acceptable to you to stop calling for Ellinger's head?

.400 record (the soonest this could happen is if RSL wins the next two games and attains a 4-5-2 record).

But if we don't make the playoffs this year, he's gotta go. Even Ellinger himself set this as his benchmark at the beginning of the season.

The real point of this thread is for RSL to achieve quality football both on the pitch as well as in the standings. I don't want to just get by (with an ok level of football and an ok record).

I want to see RSL excel both on the pitch and in the standings. So all of this talk about minimum performance isn't really what I'm looking for.

In the final analysis, I expect a team that has a winning record.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

The real point of this thread is for RSL to achieve quality football both on the pitch as well as in the standings. I don't want to just get by (with an ok level of football and an ok record).

I think that everyone agrees with this. I don't think that anyone is advocating "just getting by." I think where the difference lies is in our different timelines. You seem to believe that this is something that can be achieved immediately, while others see it taking a little time to start up an expansion team. At the end of the day, we all want to see RSL hoisting Cup after Cup over their head. We just disagree on what we consider a reasonable amount of time to reach that goal.

Quote:

I want to see RSL excel both on the pitch and in the standings. So all of this talk about minimum performance isn't really what I'm looking for.

I think that for the most part you are the one that started all of the talk about minimum performance standards when you started asking what was the minimum Ellinger had to do to avoid being fired. If this isn't what you are looking for, what kind of discussion are you looking for?

Quote:

In the final analysis, I expect a team that has a winning record.

We all do. It's just a matter of when that expectation is realistic.

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 01:58 PM

I want a winning record by midseason. Why? Because I don't want to see RSL dragging their sorry butt to the end like the second half of last season.

Aero · 05-30-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

I want a winning record by midseason. Why? Because I don't want to see RSL dragging their sorry butt to the end like the second half of last season.

I would love that too. The question isn't what we want though, it's what is reasonable. I want RSL to win the Open Cup, the Supporter's Shield, and the MLS Cup this year. What I want and what is reasonable aren't always the same, especially when it comes to being a fan of a team.

Maybe instead of discussing what we want, because I think we all want the exact same thing, we should start discussing what is reasonable for a team in its second year instead. Those are the standards that Ellinger should be judged on. He should be judged on what is reasonable rather than what we want as fans.

AreliusIV · 05-30-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

I would love that too. The question isn't what we want though, it's what is reasonable. I want RSL to win the Open Cup, the Supporter's Shield, and the MLS Cup this year. What I want and what is reasonable aren't always the same, especially when it comes to being a fan of a team.

Maybe instead of discussing what we want, because I think we all want the exact same thing, we should start discussing what is reasonable for a team in its second year instead. Those are the standards that Ellinger should be judged on. He should be judged on what is reasonable rather than what we want as fans.

It is reasonable to have a winning record and it is reasonable to qualify for the playoffs.

knowwonnose · 05-30-2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

I want a winning record by midseason. Why? Because I don't want to see RSL dragging their sorry butt to the end like the second half of last season.

I think you're making your expectations too clear cut. We all want wins, but we must be flexible. Consider this: RSL goes 4-1-2 (W-T-L) leading up to the mid-point in the season. That makes them 6-2-2 in the 10 games prior to that point. A great record in any book, and still, according to your expectations, they will be less than 500 (6-3-7). We are still fans of a team that can only be expected to take steps toward greatness, not leaps into it.

Unless two or three teams become "whipping boys" for the league like RSL and Chivas were last year, only ~50% of teams will end the year with more wins than losses. Does this mean that by your expectations 50% of coaches should be fired?