RSL player news (re: draft news)

praxis · 11-19-2006, 07:40 PM

I would be happy if Kries moved to the FO, and Talley was captain. Kries stays with us so we keep his face around but we get Talley as captain. And open up some room for younger blood. That is what Elinger is supposed to be good at, developing talent.

rslfutbolfan · 11-19-2006, 08:18 PM

Good idea. I dont agree with the idea of keeping (or getting for that matter) a player based on the fact that he fits our supposed ideas of the community value. And if that is what you are looking for both Tally and Kleiny are family guys... and Garlick....and Andy for that matter.

Aerick · 11-19-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rslfutbolfan

Good idea. I dont agree with the idea of keeping (or getting for that matter) a player based on the fact that he fits our supposed ideas of the community value. And if that is what you are looking for both Tally and Kleiny are family guys... and Garlick....and Andy for that matter.

Agreed. Although, in Utah it seems, good values amount to something - even in professional sports franchises. We admired Stockton and Malone for their work ethic and clean public records. Granted, there are a lot of people on RSL that fit that same mold as you've mentioned, but only one that has been here since the very beginning - Jason Kreis. I'm fine with him being the face of the team in the FO and someone else taking the helm for the future of the team such as Talley. Not that it matters much what I'm fine with...

RSLfrontrowfan · 11-20-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prk166

I don't get it. If Kries was worth giving up a partial allocation for why leave him unprotected to start with??!?!?????

Stupid move by the RSL FO

"Compare Toronto FC's day to the bungling of Real Salt Lake, which has had two years to figure things out.

The Utah outfit seemed to be moving in the right direction, finishing with a strong second half in 2006. But what about this stunt John Ellinger and Co. pulled Friday? If Jason Kreis is so important to the organization that it would trade valuable allocation resources to get him back, as RSL did late Friday, then why leave him unprotected in the first place? Obviously, they gambled that Toronto wouldn't take Kreis -- and they lost. Those are the aimless maneuvers that get people fired.

Meanwhile, Johnston and his lieutenants should be celebrating their victory. They traded Kreis back to RSL for allocation money and got, in effect, something for nothing."

I_Believe_In_Kreis · 11-20-2006, 02:11 PM

Wow......I'm gone for just a few days, I come back and the RSL fanbase is ready to throw Kreis under the bus. *sigh* It looks like I've got to defend Kreis to the masses again. Here's every argument I've heard for getting rid of him:
1. He's not producing like he used to. Player production is all relative. 8 & 5 is a career year for the vast majority of MLS players, but in Kreis' case his past is haunting him. Let me remind you that all year he played a very withdrawn role. He was expected to play defense clear down to the endline. He was also no longer the go-to guy. Putting up those kind of numbers while playing second fiddle to Jeff is noteworthy.
2. We could trade him for a high draft pick. That's true. But how many draft picks will put up 8/5 in this decade, let alone next year? I'd much rather have Kreis' production, even in a "down year", than put my money down on a rookie who may or may not pan out. Ballouchy was a great pick, but even he may never put up 8 & 5 - who knows?
3. We could take the money we saved on his salary and sign a younger free agent. OK, great. Who? Name one free agent at Kreis' salary who put up those numbers.
4. We could take the money we saved on his salary and sign a good SI. Wasn't that what Jafet Soto was supposed to be?
5. I don't like how he's assumed the role of coach. If Ellinger would coach, Kreis wouldn't have to.
6. He's old. I'll concede this point. But Roberto Carlos is old, too (older than Kreis, in fact).
7. He's lost a step. I'll concede this point too. But he's reinvented his game in a way to not rely so much on speed he no longer has (by playing more withdrawn).

However I agree with those who are questioning RSL's decision-making process in leaving him unprotected. If he's so valuable, why not protect him? It's like the FO just said to TFC "here, have this check for $125,000 and leave us alone."

BetterThanChivas · 11-20-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSLfrontrowfan

Stupid move by the RSL FO

"Compare Toronto FC's day to the bungling of Real Salt Lake, which has had two years to figure things out.

The Utah outfit seemed to be moving in the right direction, finishing with a strong second half in 2006. But what about this stunt John Ellinger and Co. pulled Friday? If Jason Kreis is so important to the organization that it would trade valuable allocation resources to get him back, as RSL did late Friday, then why leave him unprotected in the first place? Obviously, they gambled that Toronto wouldn't take Kreis -- and they lost. Those are the aimless maneuvers that get people fired.

Meanwhile, Johnston and his lieutenants should be celebrating their victory. They traded Kreis back to RSL for allocation money and got, in effect, something for nothing."

Finally someone agrees with me completely, and he just happens to write for ESPN.

I'm still mad about this.

Aero · 11-20-2006, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Believe_In_Kreis

3. We could take the money we saved on his salary and sign a younger free agent. OK, great. Who? Name one free agent at Kreis' salary who put up those numbers.

I know that he isn't a free agent, but Atiba Harris was coming along nicely. He had 4 goals to Kreis' 8 and 1 assist to Kreis' 5, but Kreis played more than double the minutes of Harris. Kreis had 2434 and Harris had 1146. So, his production might not be quite up to Kreis' level, but he was certainly improving as the year went on. But here's the kicker, Harris made $16,500 last year to Kreis' $197,500. So Kreis made 12 times as much as Harris for a few more assists.

I like Kreis, but I don't think it would be that hard to replace his production. We don't even need a free agent. Maybe all that Harris needs is a little more experience and time on the field which he probably won't get as much with Kreis still around.

Are a few assists and Kreis' intangibles worth $181,000 in salary, the experience he takes away from younger players that may be around for a long time, and a partial allocation? If he were a few years younger, I'd say yes. At this point I'm not so sure. He's a good guy to have on the team, but at some point the cost for having him on the team becomes too much. At what point do you think that happens? I think that giving up the allocation for him was that point.

I_Believe_In_Kreis · 11-20-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero

Are a few assists and Kreis' intangibles worth $181,000 in salary, the experience he takes away from younger players that may be around for a long time, and a partial allocation? If he were a few years younger, I'd say yes. At this point I'm not so sure. He's a good guy to have on the team, but at some point the cost for having him on the team becomes too much. At what point do you think that happens? I think that giving up the allocation for him was that point.

As usual your arguments are rational and well thought out. I'm not used to that with RSL fans. 🙂

I actually agree with what you're saying. Once TFC drafted him I thought RSL should have let him go, and bringing him back was not worth the partial allocation. I was trying to make two points:
1. Leaving him unprotected was a HUGE mistake (I doubt I get much argument there), to the tune of $125k. If he was worth that kind of money to RSL, how much was a protected player like Harris worth? I think Harris should go ask for a raise. That said.....
2. the argument that Kreis is no longer productive simply doesn't hold water. He was 2nd on the team in goals, and he was especially effective in the games Jeff missed (look them up and you'll see what I mean). That's something to remember if Jeff goes down with an injury next season.

RSL_Fan · 11-20-2006, 05:15 PM

Question...Anyone know the details of his contract? Is it the same as last year or will he need to negotiate a new one after he was traded back to RSL?

Old Ska · 11-20-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Believe_In_Kreis adressing reasons why RSL should have been happy with the departure of Kreis

We could take the money we saved on his salary and sign a younger free agent. OK, great. Who? Name one free agent at Kreis' salary who put up those numbers.

How about "giving every indication they could put up those numbers in MLS"? Off my head I would say Johann Smith, Jemal Johnson, Sammy Ochoa (not sure of his salary, though).

Toronto knew exactly what they were doing. When they saw that Kreis was unprotected they went after him knowing full well they could send him back. I think Chivas protected Jesse Marsch for exactly this reason. I can't believe Ellinger and Pastorino took that risk, and then followed that mistake up with another one.