Sometimes RES policy is what it says it is.

Rover · 08-09-2005, 01:16 PM

This is a good discussion and I like to see the various opinions.

I think you will find, even in Europe and SA, that some fans are chanting the whole game and others are not. The key is that entire sections of the stands are filled with vocal supporters, and that's where you get the impression that the whole stadium is into it.

But different people support their team in different ways, and that's fine.

I think it would be great to get the whole stadium going on some of the basic chants, and I think that's possible. But I'd start with developing a Nordkurve/Curva Nord (pick your language) where the most vocal supporters can be most effective by banding together. We've got a good start to that, and it will grow. It is a really fun way to support your team and I highly recommend it.

However, some supporters prefer to not be as vocal in that way, and I for one respect that. They are not lesser supporters of the club.

I know that as a player and coach from way back I really like to watch the game, so I'm not always into the chanting. I yell enough to lose my voice and I'm right there with most of the chants but as a rule I'm more into the soccer than the show. That's not a criticism--again, everyone enjoys the game in their own way.

I would add that the Nordcurve is essential to a proper soccer atmosphere, and that's why I'm a Loyalist. We need to promote it. I'm as pleased as anyone at how well the RSL supporters clubs have developed and that should be our focus of effort. But understand that it's not for everyone. In the end, there should be a place for all who support the club.

Aerick · 08-09-2005, 02:31 PM

Good post Rover. I agree that there is more than one way to support RSL, and therefore belong to a supporters group. Spreading the good word, getting your friends to come to the games, cheering them on in a very vocal manner, helping out with the supporters organization, buying lots of team gear, etc. Any combination of those would constitute a supporter in my mind.

Burninator · 08-09-2005, 03:11 PM

I agree as well. Each fan should support in his or her own way, I just was expressing my wish that the support was a little more vocal during the games. Just buying a ticket is support. But just because you're there in the stands doesn't mean you're helping the team to play better. Every time I go to a game, I try to do my small part to provide an atmosphere that is conducive to the scoring of many, many goals by RSL, and the frustration of the visiting team. IMO, just buying a ticket and going to watch the game does not accomplish this. As I said earlier, the stadium doesn't have to be filled with a bunch of football zombies that are constantly ripping into the other team. I don't know how productive that would be. It would be nice to have a little more VOCAL support for the home side, that's all.

I have never played an organized team sport with a major fan base. I don't know what it is like to play with or without a crowd as a professional. All I know is that RSL is constantly thanking the fans, especially the loyalists and the other E32 residents, for their support. I'm just trying to help us WIN. Buying jerseys and stuff is all great and dandy for the financial health of the team, but so is winning, and buying jerseys doesn't necessarily help a team to win.

I just wish things were more vocal, and I have a feeling that games will become rowdier in the future :signfutil I sure hope so, anyway. In the meantime, I think it would be great to encourage this feeling in the crowd however we can, without alienating anyone, of course. Perhaps that's the tricky part...

--Geoff :dontgetit

BTW, this smiley ROCKS.
:tomcat:

Aerick · 08-09-2005, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burninator

I agree as well. Each fan should support in his or her own way, I just was expressing my wish that the support was a little more vocal during the games. Just buying a ticket is support. But just because you're there in the stands doesn't mean you're helping the team to play better. Every time I go to a game, I try to do my small part to provide an atmosphere that is conducive to the scoring of many, many goals by RSL, and the frustration of the visiting team. IMO, just buying a ticket and going to watch the game does not accomplish this. As I said earlier, the stadium doesn't have to be filled with a bunch of football zombies that are constantly ripping into the other team. I don't know how productive that would be. It would be nice to have a little more VOCAL support for the home side, that's all.

I have never played an organized team sport with a major fan base. I don't know what it is like to play with or without a crowd as a professional. All I know is that RSL is constantly thanking the fans, especially the loyalists and the other E32 residents, for their support. I'm just trying to help us WIN. Buying jerseys and stuff is all great and dandy for the financial health of the team, but so is winning, and buying jerseys doesn't necessarily help a team to win.

I just wish things were more vocal, and I have a feeling that games will become rowdier in the future :signfutil I sure hope so, anyway. In the meantime, I think it would be great to encourage this feeling in the crowd however we can, without alienating anyone, of course. Perhaps that's the tricky part...

--Geoff :dontgetit

BTW, this smiley ROCKS.
:tomcat:

Notice that I didn't include "buying a ticket", or "buying a jersey" as qualifiers for being a true supporter of the team. I did put "buying lots of team gear", which does help with the financial health of the team - and let's face it, if the health isn't there, the team may not be either. 🙁

All of the items I specifically delineated, I felt were worthy of calling someone a true supporter for RSL if they participated in one or more of them. Obviously, the more you participate in, the more supportive you become.

Jose Luis Luviano · 08-12-2005, 11:58 AM

Almost all Mexican League fans sit. Toluca's Perra Brava and I think a couple of the more deranged Pumas' porras will stand for the whole match, if I remember correctly.

The silver lining to going to a match at a stadium where you can boo the US anthem and throw cups full of bodily fluids at people carrying US flags is that the Coliseum allows smoke bombs.

(At least the MLSNet article about Goats Lite - Denny's Omlettes in the Coproseum implies that.)

Scholesy · 08-12-2005, 01:05 PM

Let's be careful not to try too hard, one of the reasons that traditions exist is that they just sort of evolve from people just doing, if things look too oragnised or manufactured then there is a tendancy to lose that feeling of improvisation. I think you're all doing really well as it goes, just don't try too hard, give yourselves some credit for what you have accomplished so far. And yes I still hate the streamers, the most single game distraction ever, streakers have less of an impact on the game.

Scholesy · 08-12-2005, 01:24 PM

The reason that the whole stadiums in England chant or even appear ot chant is really simple.

1. Most people are insecure about being the loud one in the crowd
2. No one wants to be the one who starts the chant in case nobody else joins in and you look like an idiot
3. Most people simply don't know the chants/songs - agan no one wants to be the idiot who sings it wrongly

The answer?
Well obviously teaching people, but that still doesn't get rid of reasons 1 and 2.

It is however so much easier to join in singing a song already being sung around you, it is easier to learn a song that you have heard sung 4 or 5 times from other fans around you. It's always easier to be led than to lead in front of 20,000 people. The key is to keep the chants simple at first, pick 3 or 4 that are 2 or 3 liners, mayeb just team chants, hich honestly I think work better since almost everyone knows what you are saying then rather than havign to decipher a 10 verse song to the tune of someones favourite 60's hit by Howie and the Ravers.

When ice hockey first came to the UK I was a huge fan, played until I was 19 and worked for the team in telford who won the division eventually. In the crowds (which were admittedly smaller and at closer quarters) we made a point after about 3 months of frustrated solo singing in one corner of the rink that we would teach everybody else how to sing. So this is what we did:

1. We handed out flyers on the chants, songs and tunes used.
2. In stead of us all sitting together we split up in to 5 groups
a. 1 Larger group of the main fans who led all the chants except for the occassional impromtu song or ref hating.
b. 4 smaller groups who mingled in varying areas of the rink where we thought they looked like good candidates for singers, younger people, areas where lots of shirts were worn, next to away fans, and always next to the bench.
3. We would co-ordinate the songs with the main group, it sounds stupid but we would wait for signals, these days a quick text message of the song and the timed start, so that we could join in within a few minutes so it didn't look too staged.
4. We would then be the ones who started the singing, people around us often joined in because they didn't have be the ones who started the songs, they would realise that others were singing and that they weren't on their own. They would also realise that they enjoyed singing, they liked the chants and could learn them easily.

We would eventually leave and go back to our favourite seats, but as we started singing later on in the season we foud that a good portion of the other fans joined in to our songs. By the time the season was over it we won the leagues best fan, loudest fans, and fans with the songs awards.

Now I'm not saying that this is the answer for us here, I'm just saying be aware that not everyone is as confident as you, some need a little help. Oh, and keep it simple. Just my thoughts.

Aerick · 08-12-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholesy

Let's be careful not to try too hard, one of the reasons that traditions exist is that they just sort of evolve from people just doing, if things look too oragnised or manufactured then there is a tendancy to lose that feeling of improvisation. I think you're all doing really well as it goes, just don't try too hard, give yourselves some credit for what you have accomplished so far. And yes I still hate the streamers, the most single game distraction ever, streakers have less of an impact on the game.

Streamers rock!! You don't know what you're talking about Scholes!! 😁 You should bring some white ones for tomorrows game to celebrate Jason's 100th goal.

(Come on, you know you want to. Don't knock it until you try it!!)

Rover · 08-12-2005, 01:51 PM

I think you're on to something, Scholsey. It will take coordination, but it can be done. Of course, I'm not in Salt Lake to do any of the work so take my opinion for what it's worth.

I'm not a big fan of the streamers either, but they are basically harmless and easy to do so they may be with us for awhile.

I can't stand those stupid plastic horns, and they're thankfully rare at RES. Long may that continue.

Anyway, you're right that you can't force traditions--they ahve to develop on their own. Some ideas will take, and others won't. We ahve to keep trying new things and keep the ones that work.

Aerick · 08-12-2005, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholesy

The reason that the whole stadiums in England chant or even appear ot chant is really simple.

1. Most people are insecure about being the loud one in the crowd
2. No one wants to be the one who starts the chant in case nobody else joins in and you look like an idiot
3. Most people simply don't know the chants/songs - agan no one wants to be the idiot who sings it wrongly

The answer?
Well obviously teaching people, but that still doesn't get rid of reasons 1 and 2.

It is however so much easier to join in singing a song already being sung around you, it is easier to learn a song that you have heard sung 4 or 5 times from other fans around you. It's always easier to be led than to lead in front of 20,000 people. The key is to keep the chants simple at first, pick 3 or 4 that are 2 or 3 liners, mayeb just team chants, hich honestly I think work better since almost everyone knows what you are saying then rather than havign to decipher a 10 verse song to the tune of someones favourite 60's hit by Howie and the Ravers.

When ice hockey first came to the UK I was a huge fan, played until I was 19 and worked for the team in telford who won the division eventually. In the crowds (which were admittedly smaller and at closer quarters) we made a point after about 3 months of frustrated solo singing in one corner of the rink that we would teach everybody else how to sing. So this is what we did:

1. We handed out flyers on the chants, songs and tunes used.
2. In stead of us all sitting together we split up in to 5 groups
a. 1 Larger group of the main fans who led all the chants except for the occassional impromtu song or ref hating.
b. 4 smaller groups who mingled in varying areas of the rink where we thought they looked like good candidates for singers, younger people, areas where lots of shirts were worn, next to away fans, and always next to the bench.
3. We would co-ordinate the songs with the main group, it sounds stupid but we would wait for signals, these days a quick text message of the song and the timed start, so that we could join in within a few minutes so it didn't look too staged.
4. We would then be the ones who started the singing, people around us often joined in because they didn't have be the ones who started the songs, they would realise that others were singing and that they weren't on their own. They would also realise that they enjoyed singing, they liked the chants and could learn them easily.

We would eventually leave and go back to our favourite seats, but as we started singing later on in the season we foud that a good portion of the other fans joined in to our songs. By the time the season was over it we won the leagues best fan, loudest fans, and fans with the songs awards.

Now I'm not saying that this is the answer for us here, I'm just saying be aware that not everyone is as confident as you, some need a little help. Oh, and keep it simple. Just my thoughts.

I completely agree here. Simple is KEY! Some of our chants even I have a hard time figuring out the words and I'm right in the thick of things. 🙁