Germany Bound

[montgjules]

We're all on the same side now, essentially... especially regarding the fussball

[Rover]

This thread went south quickly.

Whatever.

I'm a BMG fan myself, but I'm pleased that RSL is developing ties to a Bundesliga club, no matter which one.

Any experience our young players get with a club in a top Euro League will be good for them. The intensity level of the practices is far beyod anything they can be part of here (yet) in soccer.

And yes, for those who don't know, "soccer" is the name of the sport from its origins as a code of football. "Football" refers to several different sports that developed from the same game. So the American ("Gridiron"), Rugby (Union and League), Aussie Rules, Gaelic, Canadian, and Soccer ("Association") football are all versions of "Football." Technically, the more appropriate and specific name for our game is--soccer.

[Scholesy]

Originally Posted by Rover

This thread went south quickly.

Whatever.

I'm a BMG fan myself, but I'm pleased that RSL is developing ties to a Bundesliga club, no matter which one.

Any experience our young players get with a club in a top Euro League will be good for them. The intensity level of the practices is far beyod anything they can be part of here (yet) in soccer.

And yes, for those who don't know, "soccer" is the name of the sport from its origins as a code of football. "Football" refers to several different sports that developed from the same game. So the American ("Gridiron"), Rugby (Union and League), Aussie Rules, Gaelic, Canadian, and Soccer ("Association") football are all versions of "Football." Technically, the more appropriate and specific name for our game is--soccer.

Well now you would say that wouldn't you. 😉 The bottom line is that what is recognised world-wide is the term football for this game, not soccer, so we can do what we usually do here and try and convince ourselves that the USA is the only country in the world to know what's going on in anything or we can just face the fact that the rest of the world calls it football and that we too have a game called football - however crap it is, but when refering to this game we love with those of other nations we might be better off calling it football - as they all do.

Or of course we could just decide that it was in fact the USA that actually invented the game of football/soccer some 2000 years a go and that the rest of the world is waaaaay behind.

Having said that - mostly tongue in cheek - the word 'soccer' did actually originate in England with the 'lower classes' but it's a much more complicated story than that.

[Scholesy]

Saying you hate Hannover 96 is a little strong, have yuo ever seen them play live? They're not a bad team at all and hello RSL hasn't exactly lit up the league this year has it?

Originally Posted by Braunaujung

...and we hate ****in´ salt lake mormons like you. see you in may in damn boring slc. :boxing:

visit us @ www.das-fanmagazin.de/forum /we´ve a english area. :hitler:

There is no need for either of these comments.

The players are just lucky to have the chance to go and train with a 1st class outfit like Hanover. I have been there a few times and have watched them play 3 different occassions and enjoyed every game. Having watched the first round of the MLS Cup play offs this year I'm not sure we can really call Hanover boring.

German bloke - not cool. There is no need to be hostile like that about Mormons, Salt Lake or otherwise. You don't know Utah, Mormons or Salt Lake. It's a great place, with good people who will welcome you.

Let's start this again and maybe we can all try to focus on football, at least we have that in common.

[Section 37]

Originally Posted by Scholesy

Let's start this again and maybe we can all try to focus on football, at least we have that in common.

But this is a soccer forum. Oh wait, football. Right. Okay, I'm with you now.
hehe

[Scholesy]

Originally Posted by Section 37

But this is a soccer forum. Oh wait, football. Right. Okay, I'm with you now.
hehe

Damn Walter Camp for all this confusion, he just couldn't leave it alone could he. Bloody Yale students think they know everything ... all because he sucked so bad at Rugby.

Funnily enough when the first soccer federation was established here in the USA it was called "The United States Football Association" (USFA) and then later changed to "The United States Soccer Football Association" (USSFA) and then to day's "United States Soccer Federation."

[soccerman]

Originally Posted by Rover

I'm a BMG fan myself

Really? I prefer Columbia House.

[Rover]

Originally Posted by Scholesy

Well now you would say that wouldn't you. 😉 The bottom line is that what is recognised world-wide is the term football for this game, not soccer, so we can do what we usually do here and try and convince ourselves that the USA is the only country in the world to know what's going on in anything or we can just face the fact that the rest of the world calls it football and that we too have a game called football - however crap it is, but when refering to this game we love with those of other nations we might be better off calling it football - as they all do.

Or of course we could just decide that it was in fact the USA that actually invented the game of football/soccer some 2000 years a go and that the rest of the world is waaaaay behind.

Having said that - mostly tongue in cheek - the word 'soccer' did actually originate in England with the 'lower classes' but it's a much more complicated story than that.

For very good reasons the game is rightly called "soccer" in Australia, New Zealand, USA, South Africa, and Canada (countries that have other codes of football as well as soccer). The term originated from a practice at Oxford, where words were shortened and given the suffix -er. In this case, "Association" (for "Association Football," the proper name of the game) was shortened to "socc," and then the suffix was added for "soccer." The term was accepted and has been in use for well over a hundred years.

As for the rest of the world, most use variations of "football" but a number do not. In addition to those listed above, the game is called "Calcio" in Italy, a country with a decent soccer pedigree; "Nogomet" in the South Slavic countries (Croatia and Slovenia, for example); and "Sakka" in Japan.

The use of "football" as a generic term for Association Football as a specific sport and not for all the codes does not mean such use is wrong. And the use of "soccer" in the USA, Canada, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand isn't wrong either, nor is the use of "football" for gridiron. Each has a claim to the name, which originally was used to differentiate the common man's game from polo ("foot" as in "on foot" and not on a horse). The name is not the exclusive name of any of these games, since in reality it refers to the game of common origin, and that game no longer exists. The main point is this--Americans (and Canadians, Australians, Kiwis, etc.) are perfectly justified both historically and practically to call the game soccer, and any claims otherwise are factually incorrect.

I happen to enjoy all the codes of football, and if pressed I'd say the best one is Aussie Rules. I also think that gridiron football is a great game, a fact that in no way lessens my support for soccer. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Scholesy]

Originally Posted by Rover

For very good reasons the game is rightly called "soccer" in Australia, New Zealand, USA, South Africa, and Canada (countries that have other codes of football as well as soccer). The term originated from a practice at Oxford, where words were shortened and given the suffix -er. In this case, "Association" (for "Association Football," the proper name of the game) was shortened to "socc," and then the suffix was added for "soccer." The term was accepted and has been in use for well over a hundred years.

As for the rest of the world, most use variations of "football" but a number do not. In addition to those listed above, the game is called "Calcio" in Italy, a country with a decent soccer pedigree; "Nogomet" in the South Slavic countries (Croatia and Slovenia, for example); and "Sakka" in Japan.

The use of "football" as a generic term for Association Football as a specific sport and not for all the codes does not mean such use is wrong. And the use of "soccer" in the USA, Canada, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand isn't wrong either, nor is the use of "football" for gridiron. Each has a claim to the name, which originally was used to differentiate the common man's game from polo ("foot" as in "on foot" and not on a horse). The name is not the exclusive name of any of these games, since in reality it refers to the game of common origin, and that game no longer exists. The main point is this--Americans (and Canadians, Australians, Kiwis, etc.) are perfectly justified both historically and practically to call the game soccer, and any claims otherwise are factually incorrect.

I happen to enjoy all the codes of football, and if pressed I'd say the best one is Aussie Rules. I also think that gridiron football is a great game, a fact that in no way lessens my support for soccer. They're not mutually exclusive.

I never suggested that any love of sport is exclusive. You choose to take things so seriously. I alluded to the fact that historically soccer is an accepatble term, but we don't live in 1895, we live in 2005 and most of the world has adopted the term football.

I agree with some of the facts you quote, although you miss some out, perhaps in order to aid your long evident anti British/English sentiments.

Rugby and it's variations came along after people had been playing the game of football with feet only, legend has it that rugby began in 1823 when, during a game of football at Rugby School, William Webb Ellis picked up the ball and ran with it. So if anyone has claims to the name football it is those who use their feet as the primary source of moving the ball around.

Football as a modern spelling can be found as found back as 1650, although records of Romans playing local peasants in England (often known as kicking the bladder) can be found as far back as 43 AD. Teams could have as many as 50 people and records show that the playing area could be as far as 3 miles long. It wasn't regulated until much further on down the line.

You say Oxford was the school to label it 'soccer'. The common agreement is that it was a meeting hosted by Oxford and Cambridge and 4 other public (private) schools that formed the 'Association'. It was not just an Oxford thing to end everything in 'er'. It is still a common practice today in England to abbreviate to an 'er' word (brekkers for breakfast is an obvious example).

The current game of American football should have no claim on the name since it was started at Yale as a different game since he couldn't be bothered to learn the rules of rugby. I don't care that he started a new game, more power to him, but to ride on the back of the popularity of the current game of football was a cheap tactic (that certainly worked) by Walter Camp. Even in 1913 the most common term for football (soccer) was still football (1913 was the first US soccer association called "The United States of America Football Association", it wasn't until years later that the term soccer was added in to the title and eventually dropped.

Either way the Engliah FA (Football Association) had been started in 1863 so Walter 'I couldn't run or play rugby well' Camp had no right to use the term football, get over it Rover as much as you'd like to run the world and make everything yours you can't. Mutli cultural differences can actually make the world a more interesting place and believe it or not - nicer. Every country has something to contribute, your way is not the only way.

[the Bardguy]

Originally Posted by Scholesy

often known as kicking the bladder

I think that happened to me at practice on Saturday.