Germany Bound

soccerman · 10-30-2005, 02:19 PM

I love the irony. In my experience the need to proclaim oneself open-minded is inversly related with actually being open-minded. Thanks for once again putting we smug, loud, self-righteous, fat and probably smelly Americans in our place Scholesy.

Section 37 · 10-30-2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Bardguy

I think that happened to me at practice on Saturday.

very funny. bravo.

Rover · 10-30-2005, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholesy

I never suggested that any love of sport is exclusive. You choose to take things so seriously. I alluded to the fact that historically soccer is an accepatble term, but we don't live in 1895, we live in 2005 and most of the world has adopted the term football.

I agree with some of the facts you quote, although you miss some out, perhaps in order to aid your long evident anti British/English sentiments.

Rugby and it's variations came along after people had been playing the game of football with feet only, legend has it that rugby began in 1823 when, during a game of football at Rugby School, William Webb Ellis picked up the ball and ran with it. So if anyone has claims to the name football it is those who use their feet as the primary source of moving the ball around.

Football as a modern spelling can be found as found back as 1650, although records of Romans playing local peasants in England (often known as kicking the bladder) can be found as far back as 43 AD. Teams could have as many as 50 people and records show that the playing area could be as far as 3 miles long. It wasn't regulated until much further on down the line.

You say Oxford was the school to label it 'soccer'. The common agreement is that it was a meeting hosted by Oxford and Cambridge and 4 other public (private) schools that formed the 'Association'. It was not just an Oxford thing to end everything in 'er'. It is still a common practice today in England to abbreviate to an 'er' word (brekkers for breakfast is an obvious example).

The current game of American football should have no claim on the name since it was started at Yale as a different game since he couldn't be bothered to learn the rules of rugby. I don't care that he started a new game, more power to him, but to ride on the back of the popularity of the current game of football was a cheap tactic (that certainly worked) by Walter Camp. Even in 1913 the most common term for football (soccer) was still football (1913 was the first US soccer association called "The United States of America Football Association", it wasn't until years later that the term soccer was added in to the title and eventually dropped.

Either way the Engliah FA (Football Association) had been started in 1863 so Walter 'I couldn't run or play rugby well' Camp had no right to use the term football, get over it Rover as much as you'd like to run the world and make everything yours you can't. Mutli cultural differences can actually make the world a more interesting place and believe it or not - nicer. Every country has something to contribute, your way is not the only way.

There's nothing anti-English in my statements here or in the past. I'll let forum readers decide where the bias comes from in this thread. I also am amused by references to some desire on my part to "run the world," particularly when the charge is based on explaining why it's OK to call the game "soccer." Still trying to figure that one out. Funny, but the whole point was that using the term "soccer" isn't necessarily better, but it is legitimate.

As for the specifics discussed, the use of the -er suffix was common at Oxford and other elite schools and that has nothing to do with the founding of the FA. Football means "played on foot," and all the codes are played on foot. Walter Camp refined an existing game, which actually was a Canadian form of Rugby Football. And the FA was founded to codify the kicking game and differentiate it from the handling games. The name they chose was "Association Football," by default proving that the other "football" games were recognized as such. Aussie Rules was codified in 1858--five years before Association Football. Does that mean it's the "real" football?

If anyone is interested in further discussion on the real topics here--the history of the game--I recommend a new thread. I recognize that for many these topics are pretty dull, but some of us enjoy them anyway.

My purpose in responding to the original "soccer" post was to make sure that American fans can use the term without wondering if it's legitimate. It is.

Scholesy · 10-30-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rover

There's nothing anti-English in my statements here or in the past. I'll let forum readers decide where the bias comes from in this thread. I also am amused by references to some desire on my part to "run the world," particularly when the charge is based on explaining why it's OK to call the game "soccer." Still trying to figure that one out. Funny, but the whole point was that using the term "soccer" isn't necessarily better, but it is legitimate.

As for the specifics discussed, the use of the -er suffix was common at Oxford and other elite schools and that has nothing to do with the founding of the FA. Football means "played on foot," and all the codes are played on foot. Walter Camp refined an existing game, which actually was a Canadian form of Rugby Football. And the FA was founded to codify the kicking game and differentiate it from the handling games. The name they chose was "Association Football," by default proving that the other "football" games were recognized as such. Aussie Rules was codified in 1858--five years before Association Football. Does that mean it's the "real" football?

If anyone is interested in further discussion on the real topics here--the history of the game--I recommend a new thread. I recognize that for many these topics are pretty dull, but some of us enjoy them anyway.

My purpose in responding to the original "soccer" post was to make sure that American fans can use the term without wondering if it's legitimate. It is.

You just went off on your own points that are barely relevant without even reading my post apparently. You only looked at one or two points. Feel free to start a new thread if.

Rover · 10-30-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholesy

You just went off on your own points that are barely relevant without even reading my post apparently. You only looked at one or two points. Feel free to start a new thread if.

No, I read your post thoroughly. I didn't think the new information was relevant to the overall point. As has happened on several occasions, we will just have to disagree. You think the evidence favors your stance. I think the evidence favors mine. So be it. Let the reader decide.

I'm a little surprised by the charges you have made. First, there is no basis for them, as any review of my posts can verify. Second, we have agreed on most issues on the forum, even when we are among the few to take the same side (the streamer discussion comes to mind).

If anyone is interested in a new thread, feel free to start it.

I've exhausted all my own interest in this one.

Dolo · 10-31-2005, 04:26 PM

Uhhh. This thread is developing into a general discussion about the origins of soccer. In Germany, we say "Fussball" (football) and "American Football" (there is no translation).
Working at Hannover Airport, I have not seen Nolly, Cutler and Watson yet. No news in the local papers also. Let´s wait for another two or three days. Will try to attend a training session then.

Deuce · 10-31-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolo

Working at Hannover Airport, I have not seen Nolly, Cutler and Watson yet. No news in the local papers also. Let´s wait for another two or three days. Will try to attend a training session then.

They leave SLC late Wednesday. So you prolly won't see them until at least mid day on Thursday.

Reports from the training sessions would be much appreciated.... thanks

HibaIssa · 10-31-2005, 04:35 PM

Tell them "Hiba says hi." See how freaked out they get 😉

luvmyboys · 10-31-2005, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HibaIssa

Tell them "Hiba says hi." See how freaked out they get 😉

🕺 🕺 🕺

Ok, thats freaking funny, Hiba..........I'm imagining the looks of all 3 of their faces! They'll be looking for you at training.......

Gildegirl · 11-01-2005, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dolo

Uhhh. This thread is developing into a general discussion about the origins of soccer. In Germany, we say "Fussball" (football) and "American Football" (there is no translation).
Working at Hannover Airport, I have not seen Nolly, Cutler and Watson yet. No news in the local papers also. Let´s wait for another two or three days. Will try to attend a training session then.

airport, ...aha, thats the reason for your good english.(my angle 😉 )

on thursday, then, i think they will be practise on friday, maybe thursday afternoon is to early, because of jet lag etc. Whatever, they will come I !will! have some autographs. 🕺