Rock bottom Salt Lake

[AreliusIV]

Originally Posted by El Chalan

they are playing better than last year....they are a better team than last year and they play better than last year even ... they actually defend much better ... they create more quality chances than last year

Does RSL really defend better than last year? Does RSL really create more quality chances than last year?

How do you quantify this? The only way I know how to measure how well the defense and offense is doing is to measure goals allowed and goals scored.

If you compare RSL’s goals for and goals against at this time last year with RSL’s goals for and goals against this year, you’ll find virtually no difference.

So, if RSL is letting in and scoring the same number of goals this year as last year then that tells me that in reality they are not defending better than last year and they are not scoring more goals than last year.

So all we are left with is their style of play. Are you saying that they are more fun to watch this year (regardless of the goal count)?

If you want to get into stylistics, then you run into the problem that happened with Brazil at the World Cup. Boy, they sure play pretty, but they didn’t take a shot at goal vs. France until the last minute of regulation time. And they lost the match.

Do Brazilian supporters remember their team’s stylistic play or the final result? Well, if the fact that they burned Ronaldinho’s statue in southern Brazil is any indication, I’d say the result was more important to them than their style of play.

And I submit that it is the same around the world. People don’t care how well or how pretty they play unless they get the result.

[AreliusIV]

Originally Posted by I_Believe_In_Kreis

Here's your telling statistic of the day.

In 2005, the average final score of a Real Salt Lake game was 2.03 (opposition) to .94 (RSL), a difference of 1.09 goals per game.

In 2006, the average final score of a Real Salt Lake game is 1.40 (opposition) to 1.13 (RSL), a difference of .27 goals per game.

We are scoring more goals this year (.19 per game), and we are allowing less goals (.63 per game). We have improved on both sides of the ball, especially defensively. But we're in the same spot we were last year. I suspect two reasons for this. 1, the west is better this year than last year. As edaw said, we've made strides but everyone else had made leaps. 2, instead of losing games by two or three goals, we're losing them by one.

You are using a full 2005 year's statistics to compare with 1/2 of 2006. It might be more accurate to take the first half of 2005 and compare it with this season thus far.

[fuegote]

Originally Posted by montgjules

I think RSL looks more dangerous this year. Unfortunately, so does Chivas. And also, unfortunately, "looking dangerous" doesn't win games.

I looked dangerous in highschool...

....doesn't mean I scored the hot chick.

[fuegote]

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

You are using a full 2005 year's statistics to compare with 1/2 of 2006. It might be more accurate to take the first half of 2005 and compare it with this season thus far.

First half of '05
RSL .75 goals for vs 1.69 goals against. a difference of .94.

[alianza]

Originally Posted by fuegote

I looked dangerous in highschool...

....doesn't mean I scored the hot chick.

I am telling your wife :wine:

[rabble-rabble]

We are slowly getting better as far as goals go. I remember giving up a five-spot a few times on the road last year. This year we've had a number of 2-1 losses.

Still aren't getting the wins this season, but in most of our losses, we're in a position for a late tally to earn us a point while last year we were often completely out of it by the half.

[Aerick]

No shockers with this post, I'm sure:

I think the play on the field is much more entertaining. Sure, I still want results, but I've seen quite a bit of improvement, and am generally happy with that. I don't think everyone shares my view. It appears that many people don't care what happens on the field, as long as the team comes away with points. Personally, I feel that losing "pretty" is only slightly behind winning "ugly".

[prk166]

How do you quantify this? The only way I know how to measure how well the defense and offense is doing is to measure goals allowed and goals scored.
[/quote]
Can look at shots + shots on goal for RSL and opposition. Keep in mind that RSL has played 15 games and not 16. So that they have 9 less shots taken that last year would be @ a game difference. I think it shows some improvement by the team but mostly in that they're doing a better job of holding on to the ball and defending and reducing the oppositions chances. From the numbers you wouldn't know the front line and the midfield have a lot "better" players.

2006 RSL Shots 167
2006 RSL Shots on Goal 66
2006 Oppostiion Shots 169
2006 Opposition Shots on Goal 73

2005 RSL Shots 352 (1/2 = 176)
2005 RSL Shots on Goal 157 (1/2 = 78)
2005 Oppostion Shots 443 (1/2= 221)
2005 Opposition Shots on Goal 216 (1/2 = 108)



I have several issues with "the team is playing better; don't focus on results" arguements :

a) Playing better than last year wouldn't be hard.
b) If the standard of measurement is simply playing better than before, Ellinger should've been fired because I saw nothing to show the team played better in the 2nd half of season 1 than the first half.
c) While results shouldn't bee too focused on over the short run, I think it's perfectly reasonable to argue that over the course of a 1/2 a season, the results more or less reflect how the team has played compared to every other team in the league. That is, you can have an unlucky bounce or three here or there but over 10+ games you would expect the team to make it's own luck. That is, sometimes you lose a game you deserved to win and sometimes you win a game you deserved to lose. In the long run the numbers do reflect the teams overall performance.
d) If this team is playing pretty, then I'm a beauty queen.
e) They're playing better than last year and actually getting people to make runs off the ball at times and generating chances other than off of FKs. But to imply that you can't win while playing pretty doesn't hold true. Just watch DC United. Right now they're the prettiest team in the league and have the best player movement in the league. And their record reflects it. RSL can play pretty and still get a few more wins.

It is nice to see some fans out there that don't get all down and pessimistic though when things aren't going great. And it's nice to see a team that doesn't pull the trigger on a coach because their expectations are unreasonable. But if challenging for 4th place is the goal, I don't think it's unreasonable. And in a team with plenty of offensive talent, I don't understand why a few more goals aren't being scored and a few of those loses and ties being ties and wins instead.

[Aerick]

Originally Posted by prk166

... d) If this team is playing pretty, then I'm a beauty queen. ...

Can I set you up with my sister?

[rabble-rabble]

With nothing better to do on a slow Friday afternoon and my thoughts on the final Sunday, I went back and tallied up results from the last 1.5 seasons..

In 2005, RSL had a 5-22-5 record. Three wins by 1 goal, one win by 2, and one win by 3 goals. Nine losses by a goal, seven by 2 goals, four by 3 goals, and two by 4 goals. Well over half of our losses were by 2 or more goals. A few times last year, while listening to a road game on the radio as I commuted from work, we were a few goals behind by the time I arrived home around halftime.

We had 30 goals for, 65 against, for a goal differential of minus 35, and an average of -1.09 per game.

In 2006, through 15 games, RSL has a 3-8-4 record. One win each by 1 goal, 2 goals, and 3 goals, 1 loss (season opener at Chivas) by 3 goals, 7 losses by 1 goal.

We have 17 goals for, 21 goals against for a goal differential of minus 4, and an average of -0.27 per game.

We’re still losing more than we win, but aren’t getting our asses kicked up and down the field as badly.

I try to be ever optimistic and tell my self we are getting closer.......

Should be noted that as a lifetime Utah pointy-ball fan who stayed loyal through the 70s and 80s until the team finally got some success the last decade or so, I've had a lot of practice learning to be patient..........