RSL Vs. Houston

GeNioS · 10-11-2006, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czar Jake

I disagree with whoever said that RSL is just a product, and you buy a ticket to see the product, the end. A soccer team is more than a product you purchase, like a milkshake or a pair of shoes. Otherwise why do we have supporters groups? Because a soccer team is something we really care about, it is more than a product, it is part of our identity and culture

Captain Jack Sparrow to Will Turner in Pirates of the Caribbean: You need a girl, mate

fuegote · 10-11-2006, 09:08 PM

This thread is hilarious. HILARIOUS!

#1. I've learned the hard way to never trust the FO. They'll tell you they'll do stuff, and you won't even ask for it, but will hardly follow through. Remember the cup (not the board member) discussion earlier when the team was threatening leaving the state. Why would we think any different from Beanies to "fan appreciation."

B. That being said, what did you want? High fives around the stadium? CTalley has never been over to E38 but he did dance every win on his way to the locker room. Just a thought, E32 isn't really close to their goal... the locker room, but they did clap at the fans after most every game. I'm okay with that.

~I agree with everything soccerman and GeNioS have posted. Follow their sage council.

praxis · 10-11-2006, 09:17 PM

The thread is hilarious. The double standards that abound are crazy. If you don't expect anything other than the game, why bother with what the FO has done or not done. They don't owe you anything.
I expect some respect and recognition. I bet we all do, I just say it.
Czar's point about AS Roma is a perfect example. What is the team out by showing the fans some appreciation? Nothing. The fans love them more and are more dedicated to the team. At the very least, it makes sense from a business standpoint.

Aerick · 10-11-2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praxis

The thread is hilarious. The double standards that abound are crazy. If you don't expect anything other than the game, why bother with what the FO has done or not done. They don't owe you anything.
I expect some respect and recognition. I bet we all do, I just say it.
Czar's point about AS Roma is a perfect example. What is the team out by showing the fans some appreciation? Nothing. The fans love them more and are more dedicated to the team. At the very least, it makes sense from a business standpoint.

At first I was leaning more towards Genios and IBIK, but the more I read the more I'm leaning towards praxis and Czar Jake's viewpoints. It seems there are some double standards here. They care, but they don't. Or maybe it's that they used to care, but due to a few bad experiences, they dont anymore and have effectively put up a wall - and now it's just a product. It's just business. And to a degree, they're right. But there's nothing wrong with caring a little bit - or even a lot. It's why we're passionate fans. We're not there for business, we're there for entertainment. If all it was about was to go watch a soccer game at a higher level than your local high school team - there would be less fans, and less reason to go to the games for many people. It's the whole experience.

And to the point that I'm not a fan because I didn't appreciate 1 or 2 things the FO has done during my entire experience out of about a billion, is ridiculous - but then, for every 10 things soccerman posts, 9 of them are inflamatory and ridiculously put anyway. Was I upset at the way they appeared to have played this? Yes, but I'm eager to overlook this issue, because they've more than made up for it with all of the other concessions and help in the past, as I'm sure they'll continue to do in the future.

And for the record, I don't believe I ever said that people who were critical of the FO weren't true fans.

Balanceut · 10-12-2006, 01:08 AM

I also want to make sure I don't sound like my dollars <=> entertainment formula is all there is to this.

Fan is short for fanatic and we are. We surf to this website and argue, encourage, and have fun talking about this sports team.

I study this stuff, the portion of self-identity that sports fans ascribe to their teams. Basking in reflected glory is well studied and game outcomes have even been shown to affect testosterone levels. Definitely, for many of us there is more to it than just the simple equation I pointed out, certainly for me.

But, part of the risk if having a sports team define some of your self-identity is that when it doesn't perform well, it gets you down. When the player doesn't acknowledge your fanship as much as you feel they should, it can hurt deeply. Still, you are the boss of your feelings, not that team, not that player.

Which brings up the question of the wisdom of taking it all too seriously, of caring *that* much. Starting a couple of decades ago I decided that the best way for me to be a sports fan was to be ravenously excited during the game and then it is over. Done. Yeah, it will still affect my mood, up and down, but I promised myself that I'd never let it affect my relationships or work. I'd never allow myself to say a cross word to a friend, or to mistreat someone for being on the other team (or their fans) because of the outcome of the game. I don't even allow myself to joke with the fan of a losing team about losing. I remember, I've lost too. If I made that error, the game was *never* allowed to be the excuse.

Occasionally, I'll be down for an hour or two after a Georgia Tech pointy ball loss, but I *never* let it have an effect on my next day mood, or even that evening, if I could help it at all. Find a distraction, get with friends who had no clue what happened with GT

and otherwise, live life.

Because, that is what is going on in the 99% of the rest of the time we aren't watching the games.

xlyte · 10-12-2006, 01:37 AM

balancut .. thats the thing though, atleast for me, i obviously can't talk for czar and praxis. like i said in one of my posts, whether or not i am appreciated by the team i will be there game in game out. Whether we are winning or losing i will be there game in and game out. Because thats what i am ... a true real fan.

Now i don't let results get me down (although i will let them cheer me up). But at the same time we can't cut ourselves off completely from our feelings. For me, yes i am disappointed my appreciation wasn't shown on "fan appreciation night". Thats not saying it affects me and my faily life, but if i think about it yes i am disappointed. I appreciate that the fans take time out for autograph alley etc. and i think i said in a previous post i can understand them not coming over after every game. But this was possibly the last home game at RES this year ... and touted as fan appreciation night. I understand that E32 is the opposite end of the pitch from the dressing rooms, but at the same time its ONLY a pitch length away and wouldn't have taken much for them to take 5 minutes out as a team to go to E32 and E38 to show a little appreciation to the two supporters clubs. hell i woulda been happy if they all just faced us and bowed/waved. They came back onto the pitch ran west ran east turned for a quick wave to the north then scampered back inside...

praxis · 10-12-2006, 01:49 AM

The more i think about it the more the whole "it's a product" line of reasoning doesn't fit what i am hearing from the people who endorse it.
That arguement goes like this:
When you buy a ticket you get a game.
If the game pleases you you buy more tickets.
If the game displeases you, stop buying tickets.
I have seen plenty of posts about what should be done to make the team better, fire Ellinger, etc. Why not just stop buying tickets if you are unsatisfied? That is the bottom line in this argument. Not that you get to voice your opinion and have it heard or appreciated. There was a fire Ellinger petition, that seems to me to have an expectation of having your voice heard, that you expect more than just a game. If that's not the case then all that talk is just whining.
Own up to it. Either stop buying tickets or admit that you expect some recognition.

Old Ska · 10-12-2006, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praxis

The more i think about it the more the whole "it's a product" line of reasoning doesn't fit what i am hearing from the people who endorse it.
That arguement goes like this:
When you buy a ticket you get a game.
If the game pleases you you buy more tickets.
If the game displeases you, stop buying tickets.
I have seen plenty of posts about what should be done to make the team better, fire Ellinger, etc. Why not just stop buying tickets if you are unsatisfied? That is the bottom line in this argument. Not that you get to voice your opinion and have it heard or appreciated. There was a fire Ellinger petition, that seems to me to have an expectation of having your voice heard. If that's not the case then all that talk is just whining.
Own up to it. Either stop buying tickets or admit that you expect some recognition.

I don't see anyone telling you you aren't allowed to feel bad that the players don't have you on their radar. You got some reaction from people who don't think that is a legitimate expectation, that is all.

But the association you make between your complaint and "I have seen plenty of posts about what should be done to make the team better, fire Ellinger, etc" is entirely false. Those things are about improving the performance of the team. Show us how the players "showing support" for the fans affects on-field performance and then you will have a comparison.

In my opinion these guys just don't see themselves as stars since they play in a less-prestigious league amd get paid very little comparitively. They are playing in a state with just over 2 million people. I am sure every one of them is elated to be getting a paycheck for playing football, but I doubt any of them really think that being in Utah playing in MLS is that big of a deal. I few months ago Gareth Southgate walked into my soccer bar and was legitimately stunned that people in the bar knew exactly who he was. Same with local boys Jay DeMerit and Jesse Marsch. In my view the RSL guys aren't guilty of some conscious slight, they simply don't realise that a discussion like this might go on someday. Furthermore, if they did run a victory lap (win or lose like happens in some leagues) or some equivalent, or do something else along those lines it might have been looked at badly by some (arogant, undeserved, etc.), given the kind of season they have had.

fuegote · 10-12-2006, 07:28 AM

Praxis, I never expected anything from the Front Office.... until they said they would do certain things to help the group. They never completed or followed up on those promises. I'm referring more to the beanie incident than anything else for fan appreciation night. the FO did not owe me anything and I never asked. They did say they would do things (we didn't ask) and they didn't follow through. It was overselling/underperforming.

They say they'll do something, you get expectations. They don't follow through, you get frustrated. It's that simple.

as far as the team, I stand by my position and will add a big "Who cares" if they didn't come over and clap a couple times in your general direction. After the matches their ultimate goal is to get into the locker room. The section you sit in is farthest from that destination. I see them wave to samba gringa every match, want to know why? They're standing right over the entrance into the locker room.

bordelais7 · 10-12-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by praxis

I have seen plenty of posts about what should be done to make the team better, fire Ellinger, etc. Why not just stop buying tickets if you are unsatisfied? That is the bottom line in this argument. Not that you get to voice your opinion and have it heard or appreciated. There was a fire Ellinger petition, that seems to me to have an expectation of having your voice heard, that you expect more than just a game. If that's not the case then all that talk is just whining.
Own up to it. Either stop buying tickets or admit that you expect some recognition.

Huh? When I go on message boards to whine and complain, it's because I'm wishing for a better product. I'm not naive enough to think that anyone will actually DO anything based on my whining. So I'll "own up" to being a whiner, I suppose. But expecting recognition? That's just silly.