Set the record straight

Aero · 04-21-2005, 09:02 PM

The Bramble incident was also done by probably one or two people. That doesn't exactly represent all soccer fans. If that one incident is what is coloring people's view on soccer fans, then they need to really open their eyes.

It's not really very fair to judge all soccer fans based on the actions of one, maybe two, individuals, is it? Or should people stereotype a whole group of people based on their preconceived notions and the acts of one person that live up to those expectations? It says more about the people that judge us based on the Bramble incident than it does about soccer fans in general.

As far as I could tell, and of course I haven't read all the responses he got, but the one I did read didn't deserve the response it got basically declaring soccer fans as hooligans. That is what I took issue with. James' response was a much better response and I would have had no issue at all with any of this if it had been the initial response to the inquiries that we were making.

I think that there has been a lot of miscommunication in this whole thing and I think that is something that both sides of this need to work on in the future to avoid future misunderstandings. There is blame to go around on both sides in this one.

mckid · 04-21-2005, 11:21 PM

I've learned a valuable lesson here. I need to know all the facts before I jump into the ring swinging. I for one feel as though I made a mistake by my actions. I apologize.

Deuce · 04-21-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckid

I've learned a valuable lesson here. I need to know all the facts before I jump into the ring swinging. I for one feel as though I made a mistake by my actions. I apologize.

I feel your pain McKid... There have been alot of emails I have sent over the years, that I wish I could take back... but after losing my rag last week on this forum, I actually sat out this particular email campaign. It will all be forgotten by Saturday!

Viva Real!
Viva Loyalists!

bordelais7 · 04-21-2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

I just reread Schneider's reply. I still don't see what in his reply should have gotten anyone worked up. Are we just expecting negativity from the media?

Just in case you were wondering, this is the part of the reply that I had a hard time interpreting:

Quote:

Unless, of course, we get so turned off by people spreadling lies that we decide it's not worth it anymore. lol

To me, that could easily be interpreted (and it's the feeling I got reading it through the first time) as "Thanks for emailing us, but please don't do it anymore because you bug us, and if you keep it up, we'll punish you."

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, however. I think he would have been better off writing a more professionally styled response, but maybe he was trying to keep it casual and it just came across poorly.

p.s. I wish that I would have seen this thread BEFORE I chalked Schneider's place.

dysko · 04-21-2005, 11:47 PM

So, I guess I started all of this. I have sent the following response to Mr. S and several of his higher ups.

Mr. Schneider,

I am very disappointed in your juvenile response to letters sent to you expressing concern about how your paper is choosing to cover Real Salt Lake. I understand that you may be constrained by upper management. You have to work within the bounds that you are given, but you would do much better to try and be somewhat professional in your treatment of your readers.

I claim responsibility for how you were approached. I have not read the notes that you received, nor do I care to. But, if you feel that you were attacked it is because of my carelessness. When I found out that you chose not to send a writer to cover the team in Dallas, I passed that message on to others. I even advocated that people let your paper know that we would like to see you be more committed to covering our team. If it got out of hand, I offer my apologies.

However, your response has spoken volumes about you as a person and your attitude toward the sport that so many people love. You utter disrespect for the fans of the game is sickening. You have the best soccer writer in Utah and you are wasting his talents. It is because of the contempt you displayed in your response that I have taken my business else where. It is just one subscription, but I feel that speaking with my wallet is the best thing to do at this point. After 17 years, I still feel that your paper has the best content and is the superior offering in the Salt Lake market, but I can't in good conscience support it at this time.

I hope that in the future your attitude changes and I can once again return to reading the paper that I have enjoyed.

If you would like to speak to me in person, I would be more than happy to meet with you. Let me know when next week would be a good time for you.

Sincerely,

Dysko (of course I signed my actual name, should you care to know what that is please go here and put the name listed with the last name used as part of my email address)

That being said, I have no regrets whatsoever.

I feel that it is important to let them know that we have passion and that we care about our sport. I don't care what anyone says, you can tell the difference between what a stringer and what someone who covers the team on a daily basis writes. I read article's to see if I can find insight that I don't get on my own. That is something that a stringer will do much less effectively than a daily beat writer.

Mr. S may be a great editor as it was reported at the top of this thread. However, he is also a professional and he acted very unproffesional. It is his response to Ethan that I take issue with. His complete disrespect for the opinions of his readers is disheartening. He may feel trapped between us and upper management, but to take out his frustration on readers is just flat wrong.

And yes there is blame on both sides of this; I am not implying that there is not. I sincerely hope that he arranges for a meeting with me so that we can have some useful dialog. But for the time being I can not be true to my convictions and support his paper.

My business switched to the Trib because of the response, not the intial decision not to send James to Dallas.

SoccerPrime · 04-22-2005, 05:47 AM

I appreciate NotPele's comments in this thread. I wasn't mad or anything at DesNews when I wrote my email. If you have read my email, I was merely stating that I liked DesNews for sending NotPele around to cover RSL. I also stated that I had "heard" that DesNews will not be covering all the away games and that I did want them to cover all games. I never mentioned the Loyalists or that I was speaking for all soccer fans.
In fact I agree with dysko, if the editor had been a little more tactful and adult in his responses, we would, as Rover's suggested, been satisfied and moved on. He didn't and he got the negative attitude from the members of this board that he so richly deserved.

Personally I haven't even responded to his email, since it was apparent that he copied and pasted his same response to all of us. I like the personal touch.

But alas, this is now the past. Lets move on.
Lets read and support all local media that gives RSL love.

dysko · 04-22-2005, 06:04 AM

I recieved the following reply... a reply that would have been perfect had it been the first one...

Mr. Hale:

Thank you for explaining how this e-mail campaign got started.

If the message you passed along to other people was specific to the Dallas
game, and then ALL of them turned it into a seasonlong premise in their
e-mails, then it would have been them, and not you, who perpetuated the
lie. I honestly hope that local soccer fans can be viewed as reasonable
people, as I wrote in the response you attached to this. But I haven't
noticed that the past 24 hours.

I have coached youth soccer for years (not necessarily because I have a lot
of soccer knowledge, but because I am a parent willing to learn enough to
help out). I have four children who do play or have played soccer. While
I am not as familiar specifically with MLS, I am not anti-soccer. I don't
think you'll find many sports editors who personally have done as much
soccer as I have. I went to a prep JV soccer game last week to watch a
ninth-grade boy whom I'd coached in the past and now he's playing for a
high school team; I'm pretty sure I was the only non-parent/non-grandparent
spectator there. I'm not anti-soccer.

Until two days ago I was a major advocate for increasing RSL coverage. I
have tried to persuade our management to allocate more resources for the
Deseret Morning News' coverage of Real Salt Lake. But the past 48 hours
will set me back significantly. The e-mails didn't go over any better with
the managing editor than they did with me.

My responses to the past two days of e-mail always were more polite than
what I received. And, at least to those from people who were even halfway
reasonable, I tried to make a rational and accurate explanation. And I did
point out that the entire premise of most of the e-mails was untrue; there
is nothing unprofessional in calling out a slander.

If your basis is that makes me contemptuous and juvenile, then I see no
purpose in meeting. If you'd like to meet on some other basis, then I
would be happy to meet with you.

-- Dave Schneider

I for one am hoping that I get the chance to meet with him. I plan on continuing my dialog with him to see what we as fans can do to help RSL get increased coverage in the DesNews.

To be honest the Trib is handing the News its lunch right now.

I will again update this issue after I have had my meeting with Mr. S.

SoccerPrime · 04-22-2005, 06:14 AM

Over in the other thread, someone mentioned knowing Dave Schneider personally. Maybe it would be cool (in the future) to have Richins, Edward and Schneider all come to a Loyalist meeting and talk about soccer & the media...
(although Edward might already be clandestinely going to our Loyalist meetings).
Just a thought.

Stucki · 04-22-2005, 08:28 AM

I will grant that the last piece of his email in parantheses could have been left out. However, I have just read his email reply for a third time and I still don't see how it is unprofessional or objectionable in any way, with the exception of the sentence in parantheses. Are we losing sight of reality here? We already have more coverage than any other team in the league, what do we want? If we go off half-****ed and respond with an email campaign when we are angry it will only make us look bad. Yes only one or two of us acting out will brand all of us. That is just the reality we have to live with in this culture.

I am going to ask his son today if he mentioned what any of the emails were like. They already know me as a soccer geek.

Aero · 04-22-2005, 08:35 AM

I hate to keep harping on this, but this part still really bugs me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dysko

Thank you for explaining how this e-mail campaign got started.

If the message you passed along to other people was specific to the Dallas
game, and then ALL of them turned it into a seasonlong premise in their
e-mails, then it would have been them, and not you, who perpetuated the
lie.

I have gone out of my way to make people realize that this was a misunderstanding all the way around in my posts, yet he insists on calling it a lie. I think that there is a big difference between a lie and a misunderstanding. A lie has intent to mislead behind it and even if people that wrote into him were wrong about the facts, I don't believe that anyone was intentionally misleading anyone.

For him to continue to make it out that people were lying is very disengenous if you ask me. Misunderstandings happen sometimes when people get the facts wrong. That's what this was, it most certainly was not a lie and it bugs me that he continues to frame it that way. It sounds to me as if he wants to take no responsibility for his actions and would simply rather blame this whole thing on "hooligan" soccer fans.

And then this:

Quote:

And I did point out that the entire premise of most of the e-mails was untrue; there is nothing unprofessional in calling out a slander.

I guess he doesn't consider lumping all soccer fans into one big group and then disparaging them slander, but it sure sounds like it to me. And again, slander implies intent. I don't think that the intent was there that he seems to believe was there. It was a misunderstanding that was fueled by his unprofessional responses.

Whether he wants to admit it or not, he does share some responsibility in this whole thing. As I said before, it wasn't the fact that they weren't sending James to Dallas that bugged me originally, it was his response.

Shouldn't editors of newspapers have a little thicker skin that what he has displayed? I mean, don't they get nasty letters all the time from people? I knew the editor for the Weber State paper and he got a couple of nasty emails a day and that was just a little college paper.

I know I should just let this drop, but it just bugs me that he wants to blame all of this on soccer fans without accepting any responsibility for himself. Hopefully, I have now gotten it out of my system and I can move on and forget about this whole thing.