Hymn

[Aerick]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

Aerick, thank you for the kind words.

I think this talk and concern about "what would happen if..." is unwarranted. No one is talking about a schism, except for a few people not in the Rogue Cavaliers Brigade. I honestly do not see it as an issue. You have used the word "faction" in a couple of posts now, and I think that is inaccurate as well...I don't see any one group as a faction.

Well, that is not entirely true...the great skatepunk band of the 80s, The Faction, was a faction...and one I certainly enjoyed a great deal.

In any case, all this handwringing over who is what and what might happen someday is not leading to a healthy community. I still have my offer to ask Neil to delete the Rogue Cavaliers Brigade subforum on the table.

Well, I can't speak for anyone but myself. And the saying that you won't get what you want if you don't even ask for it, will have to apply to my post.

I want the Loyalists to be united. Even if that means people don't necessarily agree with each other, and hold grudges, and argue - to a degree. "United we stand, divided we fall". Let's all accentuate what we all hold in common - our love of soccer and RSL, and our goal to make them both strong in Utah by supporting the team. And ignore/minimize what we disagree on - at least for this first year or two. What we have here is amazing, but fragile. If people want to be in separate groups, chapters, or otherwise, lets at least try and agree to support the team in a united way.

My main concern with any type of split tends to come from what I see as a natural progression between the dynamic of like groups - and it's not positive.

OldSka, The Brothers Enger, I speak for myself when I say that I think the Loyalists need you, and I for one want you to be united with us - regardless of the outcome of this whole thing.

Loyalists Unite!

[Aero]

All I want to know is why was the RCB formed in the first place? Were the Loyalists not good enough? Are we not hardcore enough? What did you guys hope to accomplish by forming another group with your own separate and individually based hymns and stuff? Surely there must have been some motivation for it. I'm just curious what that was.

It would seem to me that if you really had no problem with the Loyalists, that you would never have seen the need to form your own group. And if there is something wrong with the Loyalists, what is it? And why do you come and stand with us every game?

These are all just questions that have been rattling around inside my brain and maybe the answer to some of them may actually help us understand where you are coming from. Because from my point of view, something happened that you didn't like that turned you hostile towards us (please don't deny it, can anyone say communists?) and now you feel like you need to do your own separate thing. Why?

Why not just improve the Loyalists as a whole? Why do we even need the split? Help us understand what is going on so that if you still want to remain separate which is totally fine, we can work together towards making things greater instead of what seems to be working against each other and causing problems.

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

I still have my offer to ask Neil to delete the Rogue Cavaliers Brigade subforum on the table.

Ska, the problem with that is that it doesn't solve the fundamental issue that everyone seems to be dancing around. The hostility will continue to exist even if the forum goes away unless something is done to nip it in the bud now while it's not too late. Hopefully, someone will recognize that there is a problem instead of ignoring it and pretending it doesn't exist. That does no one any good. We can acknowledge it and then deal with it in an appropriate manner that leads to everyone getting along and respecting one another. There's nothing to say that can't happen, but it never will until the root of the issue is acknowledged and addressed.

I hope you see this or someone at least tells you about it. 🙂

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by Aero

All I want to know is why was the RCB formed in the first place?

Look, I don't know what "formed" means, or what kind of assurances people want from me or anyone else. It sure seems to me that no matter what I say, people are going to have their own spin on it that fits their view of the world.

At this point I really feel like it is futile to respond.

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by Aero

The hostility will continue to exist even if the forum goes away unless something is done to nip it in the bud now while it's not too late.

I honestly do not believe that you or anyone else (myself included) has to be hostile for any reason. The continued belaboring of this issue is not encouraging RSL-supporter unity.

[montgjules]

I think Aero is asking some very valid and important questions. We're not trying to be argumentative. Please look at it from my point of view:

(1) OldSka is banned. In the ensuing explanation, it comes up that he and the Brothers Enger were somehow "united" in perhaps repping each other (no big sin) or neg-repping other people or something.

(2) A week later, the signature line of the Rogue Cavaliers is suddenly being discussed more as an entity and not just a signature line. We pay closer attention and the Rogue Cavaliers are listed in a separate section of the forum.

That's all we know.

Okay, so... did we miss something? We're not trying to pick a fight. We just need information! Seeing you listed separately from the Loyalists makes us think you'd like to be a separate entity. Maybe one that's not PG-rated like the Loyalists? Maybe one that has a different focus? Or... what? You stand by the Loyalists and seem to coordinate with Glenn, but seem protective of "your" anthem? It leaves those of us without a clue... well, without a clue.

If the answer is, "We don't know" then just tell us that. And maybe fill in the history a little? That would be fantastic. Thanks!!

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

Look, I don't know what "formed" means

I think you are the only one that doesn't.

It sure seems to me that no matter what I say, people are going to have their own spin on it that fits their view of the world.

So far, you haven't said anything. You sure ducked the question pretty good though.

At this point I really feel like it is futile to respond.

Futile? Interesting choice of words. Why exactly do you feel that way?

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

I honestly do not believe that you or anyone else (myself included) has to be hostile for any reason. The continued belaboring of this issue is not encouraging RSL-supporter unity.

That's sticking your head in the sand. The problem exists even if you don't want to acknowledge it. Obviously something happened. What was it? What went wrong so we can fix it?

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by montgjules

I think Aero is asking some very valid and important questions. We're not trying to be argumentative. Please look at it from my point of view:

(1) OldSka is banned. In the ensuing explanation, it comes up that he and the Brothers Enger were somehow "united" in perhaps repping each other (no big sin) or neg-repping other people or something.

(2) A week later, the signature line of the Rogue Cavaliers is suddenly being discussed more as an entity and not just a signature line. We pay closer attention and the Rogue Cavaliers are listed in a separate section of the forum.

That's all we know.

Okay, so... did we miss something? We're not trying to pick a fight. We just need information! Seeing you listed separately from the Loyalists makes us think you'd like to be a separate entity. Maybe one that's not PG-rated like the Loyalists? Maybe one that has a different focus? Or... what? You stand by the Loyalists and seem to coordinate with Glenn, but seem protective of "your" anthem? It leaves those of us without a clue... well, without a clue.

If the answer is, "We don't know" then just tell us that. And maybe fill in the history a little? That would be fantastic. Thanks!!

Okay, I said this in another thread too, but I'll repeat it here.

No one here asked for Rogue Cavaliers to be added as a forum here. No one has asked to be a moderator in that forum. We just showed up and it was there. I regret it in a way because it sets up the perception of an adversarial relationship, which seems to be what you are reacting to here.

That simple act of Neil's seems to have really gotten some people nervous. I do not know if it is a territorial thing, or a legitimate fear that something will be "torn apart at the seams" by someone with nefarious intentions. I do think that there are differing views among people on this forum and elsewhere on what the role of a supporters club is. What does this mean for the future (which is what I think you are trying to get at)? I can not say I don't think anyone knows for sure, I think that is all going to sort itself out. I will say again that I believe the excessive handwringing about "what-ifs" is unwarranted.

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Old Ska

No one here asked for Rogue Cavaliers to be added as a forum here. No one has asked to be a moderator in that forum. We just showed up and it was there.

And I've said it before, it has absolutely nothing to do with the forum. All the forum did was bring what you guys were doing out in the open.

I regret it in a way because it sets up the perception of an adversarial relationship, which seems to be what you are reacting to here.

No, that was done by you guys. Unless you can explain exactly who communists are and why at least one of you seemed to be so defensive of RCB's hymn. That hostility didn't materialize because of the forum. It was already there. This has nothing at all to do with the forum no matter how many times you want to use that as a smoke screen.

Again, I ask, why was RCB formed in the first place? It's actually a rather simple question so I'm not sure why you keep dodging it.