Mexico vs USA Sep 3rd. [R]

Stucki · 09-05-2005, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholesy

Anyone ever heard Alex Ferguson talking about his opponents weeks before the game? He can be brutal, I don't really care, it's just words, I agree about the anthem thing though, even though admit I may have been louder than normal during the French national anthem .. aherm :whistling: but the rest is just a part of soccer, wind up the other side and the fans shout 'You suck' or words to that effect. Osama chants do cross the line because it's so specific, but just making fun of another team ... bring it on, it just makes the game better.

I don't suppose you ever trashed Liechenstein's anthem, or did you for stealing yours?

Rover · 09-05-2005, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholesy

Anyone ever heard Alex Ferguson talking about his opponents weeks before the game? He can be brutal, I don't really care, it's just words, I agree about the anthem thing though, even though admit I may have been louder than normal during the French national anthem .. aherm :whistling: but the rest is just a part of soccer, wind up the other side and the fans shout 'You suck' or words to that effect. Osama chants do cross the line because it's so specific, but just making fun of another team ... bring it on, it just makes the game better.

Club is different than country. I don't like this stuff in any situation, but most of it is no big deal with the club game. It just points out who has class and who doesn't.

But country . . . I draw a very distinct line there. I consider much of what would hardly be noticed in a club match to be unacceptable in an international. A country is so much more than a club, despite our obvious allegiances to RSL and others.

That said, this is self-policing. There's not a thing any of us can control about it except how we ourselves choose to behave. My actions are guided by the fact that I refuse to put down another country or its symbols because I wouldn't want anyone to do it to mine.

I know I'm biased--I wear a uniform and serve in the U.S. Armed Forces. Maybe that makes me too sensitive to this stuff. So be it. But I do take it seriously and hope that others would return the respect I give them.

Scholesy · 09-05-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rover

Club is different than country. I don't like this stuff in any situation, but most of it is no big deal with the club game. It just points out who has class and who doesn't.

But country . . . I draw a very distinct line there. I consider much of what would hardly be noticed in a club match to be unacceptable in an international. A country is so much more than a club, despite our obvious allegiances to RSL and others.

That said, this is self-policing. There's not a thing any of us can control about it except how we ourselves choose to behave. My actions are guided by the fact that I refuse to put down another country or its symbols because I wouldn't want anyone to do it to mine.

I know I'm biased--I wear a uniform and serve in the U.S. Armed Forces. Maybe that makes me too sensitive to this stuff. So be it. But I do take it seriously and hope that others would return the respect I give them.

Well ... I've never heard the English called classless before, arrogant yes, classless no.

Now before you get all defensive after you read this post, just know that I choose to live in America, I have just applied for my citizenship and am proud to say I live here and I love it very much, I am very pro-American despite our weaknesses, just the same as I love my own country, England, and her weaknesses. (Yes I'll be keeping dual nationality) So just know I am not some raving anit-yank.

I was in the British services before I came to the USA and so I get what you mean, I understand it, however I have been in some interesting conversations with US soldiers who generally (and yes I appreciate that is a sweeping generalization, I have made many close friends with some of the US lads) are anything but respectful and classy when discussing other nations, their flags and their citizens. I remember well the NATO excersises where it was always the rest of the world against the US lads because no one wanted to deal with the constant crap pouring out of the mouths of the Americans about the other countries.

I don't say that to wind you up so please don't take it that way, it's just that in general you are the minority not the majority in your views of respect for other nations.

I have friends that are just like you, one is a very close friend in Ohio and is a Captain with training responsibility and he often says that if he could just get these kids to understand that the world is a very big place and a little respect goes a long way then his life and theirs after they leave would be a lot easier.

I guess I just think ... going back to football ... that a little banter between fans at a soccer game - club or country - is pretty harmless. I do agree that anthems should be sacred but not eveyone does believe that, I disagree with them but there you are, that's what you fight for right? Freedom to have your own opinion. And yes, I even felt a little guilty whistling during the French anthem, although I enjoyed it immensely at the time. I actually really like France, lived there for a while and loved it ... not so much all the people, but mostly.

DadOf8 · 09-05-2005, 09:54 PM

I have to go with Scholesy, the only National Anthem I would boo would be France's. 🙂 I'm just kidding. As mentioned before, there is a lot of bad blood between the USA and Mexico. Without getting into politics, I think soccer should be a way for nations to resolve their issues with one another instead of taking out their frustrations on one another.

kc_13 · 09-05-2005, 10:21 PM

what can I say guys? I just love soccer, it is nothing personal, it is all about passion (I believe)... but yeah, sometimes matches like a now-called-clasic "USA vs Mexico" get a little 2 fired up...

:signrocko

Rover · 09-06-2005, 01:12 AM

We'll just have to disagree, Scholsey. Even if I agreed with you about American servicemembers and citizens in general--and I do not--I would still hold that to treat the symbols of another country with disdain is classless. I will personally never do it, and I respect others who maintain that standard as well.

Congratulations on your upcoming citizenship. Trust me, it has been well earned by many who came before you.

kc_13 · 09-06-2005, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rover

Even if I agreed with you about American servicemembers and citizens in general--and I do not--I would still hold that to treat the symbols of another country with disdain is classless. I will personally never do it, and I respect others who maintain that standard as well.

I totally agree with u, when you say that country's Symbols should be respected no matter what!!
:hippy:

Scholesy · 09-07-2005, 03:04 AM

[QUOTE=Rover]We'll just have to disagree, Scholsey. Even if I agreed with you about American servicemembers and citizens in general--and I do not--I would still hold that to treat the symbols of another country with disdain is classless. I will personally never do it, and I respect others who maintain that standard as well.

Congratulations on your upcoming citizenship. Trust me, it has been well earned by many who came before you.[Quote]

I can agree that it is disrespectful and wrong to treat the symbols of someones country (no matter the country) with disrespect, and ultimately I agree that even booing the French anthem is not polite.

As for horror stories of armed forces, look, no nation is perfect, there are dreadful stories from all sides, but as I recall the last discussion I had with a US Marine it ended with a lot of words I can't say here and included statements like 'we're American, we don't need permission, we see what we like and we take it, f the world - f England (as he tried to - unsuccessfully rip the Union Jack flag from my CO's arm), f you'. This occured as my unit with our CO in the lead stopped a US unit from beating on a teenage girl and boy very badly because they wouldn't give them their bikes. When the US commander was informed his exact words were (in front of his unit) f 'em, f 'em all, this is our country now, boo yah' blah blah blah. This incident was certainly not the first I have seen or heard of.

So you and I will have to disagree, because dispite the heroic efforts of some US military to do the right thing, there is a strong core that ruins it for the rest and best of you. Now I do admit however to being extremely jealous of the US MRI's, our's alays sucked with the exception of our Garibaldi cookies which last about 80 years packed. There are many things that I adnire about the US military, but them showing respect for other nations is not a strong suit for the US military in general, obviously there are many exceptions, you must be one of those, that's great, however the kind of attitude you have is not the norm in my limited and humble opinion.

I am aware that many people gave their all for my adopted nation, I feel doubly blessed since England has stood lone at times standing against dreadful foes and at times stood side by side with the USA in defeating those foes, some of my friends and family giving their lives for those causes. So trust me I get it, you may not need to point that out as much as you think because it rather proves my point, I really do understand it.

SoccerPrime · 09-07-2005, 09:03 AM

USA qualified for the World Cup but did anyone pay attention?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/frank_deford/09/06/team.usa/index.html

Braveheart · 09-09-2005, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoccerPrime

USA qualified for the World Cup but did anyone pay attention?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/frank_deford/09/06/team.usa/index.html

media ignored the whole thing