Should Ellinger be fired?

[prk166]

Originally Posted by Aero

The difference is that most of the players on other teams have been playing together for more than a year. That just isn't the case here. It was a brand new team with brand new players with a brand new coach with a brand new front office in a brand new location. Teams that do well in their first year are the exception rather than the rule. It just doesn't happen. Should I start making a list of how good expansion teams are in their first year? Give the team a chance to get on its feet and then you can start judging them.

I'm not asking for good. I'm asking for the last 2/3 of the season to be something more than 2-19-3. Is that so unreasonable to ask?

As for having played together before , reallY?

Let look at the San Jose team that we just played

Chris Aloisi - 1st yr mls
Kelly Gray - joined San Jose in a trade earlier this year
Kevin Goldthwaite - 1st year in mls
Mark Chung - joined San Jose in a trade earlier this year
Chris Wondolowski - first year in the mls
Brad Davis - first year with San Jose
Danny O'Rourke - 1st year MLS
Julian Nash - 1st year MLS
Roger Levesque - 1st year MLS player; only player from Maine in the MLS


Played together before this year

Pat Onstad, Brian Mullan, Dwayne De Rosario, Ronald Cerritos, and Ryan Cochrane.


So that's the difference? That De Rosario, Mullan, Onstad, Cochrane, and Cerritos played together before? That had one less of that group not played togehter before we didn't win?

The teams had 32 games to get on their feet. How many more do they need? Look, I don't EXPECT them to have challenged for the playoffs. That would've been great. But why is doing so incredibly ****ty so ok? Why is being one of the worst teams ever in the MLS acceptable? Can't the standards be a little more higher than that?

Yes, one of the expectations when building a team should not be results. But that doesn't mean that 32 results mean jack-squat. And at that, one of the expectations in building a team is that they look like they're improving. Have you really seen that? Did RSL really play any better on April 15th than on Oct 12th? And what about in between? Was the team giving up less shots as the seaon went on? They didn't get a clean sheet since July 23rd BEFORE THE ALL-STAR BREAK. How much can a team be improving when they go the entire second half of the season without one single game where they stop the other team from scoring?!????? Did they have more possession in the games? How about game to game tactics? For example, the team went gillete and got spanked 4-1. What adjustments were made based on that. Surely when a team lost 4-1, things went really wrong. Well, 4 days later, they went even more wrong as we lost 4-2 at frickin' home to KC, a team that still may not be good enoguh to make it into the MLS palyoffs this year.

At the end of the day, I'm baffled that so many people are ok with 20 points. Why is 20 ok? Cuz we're new? We had plenty of experienced palyers on the team that have been around the block. Some like Andy are used to constantly playing on a new team. Why is 20 points out of a possible 96 ok? Why not 30? That would be 8 wins and 18 losses and and 6 ties. Or 7 wins, 9 ties and 16 losses. Neither would be much to get exctied about. But it would be a couple less losses at home. Or, geez, maybe a win on the road. I don't think expecting 30 points is too crazy to expect for a team. It's still 15 points out of making the playoffs. And it's still losing a ton of games. But it would make things feel a bit bette rthan they do. But maybe I'm just crazy for feeling hurt when the team didn't win a game for over 2 months to close the season out.

[Aero]

Well, Ellinger isn't going anywhere. That's the bottom line. It simply isn't going to happen. So the way I see it is you have two choices. You can either continue to get all upset about it and ruin your day or week or whatever. Or you can have a little faith and hope for the best for next year. I guess the way you want to spend the next six months of the off-season is totally up to you.

I'm done with this conversation. It really is a waste of time because nothing is going to change because of it. You aren't going to change your mind. I'm not going to change mine. And Ellinger most certainly isn't going to be fired. In fact, that is probably the most sure thing of the three. Either accept it and move on or don't and have your undies in a wad all off-season. 😉

[RSL_Fan]

Probably should let this thread die, but just wanted to say this:

When things aren't going the best, fire the coach.

Must be the solution since it worked for Chivas :dots:



Don't think so.

[Old Ska]

The one thing Ellinger did well this year was help the team learn to handle set pieces more effectively (both on O and D). He brought them from a D- to a B on that account.

Okay, Jaime Watson ended up showing more promise that some of us anticipated, B+ there too.

Everything else was an abject faliure. Longest single season scoreless streak. A ridiculously low goals per game ratio. Far too many goals allowed. No road wins. 2 of our draws were just, well, lame. A complete inability to evaluate talent. An inability to handle Mathis' play or personality. Does the ability to score on set pieces every once in a while and seeing Watson hustle hard when subbed in at 80' make up for those failures?

This sums it up in my mind: Tarley can score 2 against us in one game, but only 1 for us in, what, nine games? Let that rattle around in your brain for a while.

Get someone else in there long before the draft, please. Don't let Ellinger have a say in that again. I disagreed with, but understood, the reason they brought in a coach with almost no pro coaching experience. It didn't work, and Ellinger is the joke of MLS history. If he is locked into a contract bump him down to assistant and lets get someone decent in his job. Start an RSL U17 squad and put him in charge of that if you gotta. Just don't let him have more of a say in the future of this team, please.

[Dadof3]

Originally Posted by RSL_Fan

When things aren't going the best, fire the coach.

Must be the solution since it worked for Chivas :dots:

Hmmm...you may want to go back and look at how Chivas performed their last 10 games vs how RSL performed.

The sign of good coaching is whether and how a team reacts to the coaching. Chivas improved immensely the last 1/3 of the season...how about RSL? The first thing Chivas' new coach did was put their players through 2 a days for a couple weeks because the players let him know they were not fit. RSL looked unfit from day 1 and never got fit...a fact for which the team was called out by Checketts.

Would RSL have had a better record and season if Ellinger had been fired 1/2 way through? Maybe, but it does not matter. Ellinger was hired because he is supposed to be a good evaluator of talent...(see U-17s)...not because he is a great tactician (see U-17s). He will get this offseason to fix the personnel problems...the bigger issue is to see how and whether the front office will get Ellinger the tactical/coaching help he obviously needs.

Hey, we have a European name...why not have a European set-up? The Coach (manager) has tons of control over personnel, and then the assistant coaches handle the training. We could do the same and then have the coaching staff handle the tactics, rather than Ellinger.

End of the day, I agree that Ellinger will not be fired...but it is obvious from Checkett's comments in the papers and directly to the players that he thinks he needs to step in and help...obviously, he thinks Ellinger was unable to get these points across to the team.

[clarette]

Regarding the Cheetos, one could argue (as Waldo did yesterday) that their improvement toward the end of the season came as a result of Palencia and Garcia arriving and not necessarily the coaching change.

Just something fun to think about, courtesy of everyone's favorite MLS commentator.

[SoccerPrime]

Chivas USA overall record for 2005
4-23-6

Under Rongen
1-8-1
4 pts out of 30

Under Westerhoff
3-17-5
14 pts out of 75

Wow, what a difference 🙄

[Aero]

I'm curious what Westerhoff's record was before he got the new players and what it was after they got the new players? Anyone know?

[RSL_Fan]

Originally Posted by Dadof3

Hmmm...you may want to go back and look at how Chivas performed their last 10 games vs how RSL performed.

The sign of good coaching is whether and how a team reacts to the coaching. Chivas improved immensely the last 1/3 of the season...how about RSL? The first thing Chivas' new coach did was put their players through 2 a days for a couple weeks because the players let him know they were not fit. RSL looked unfit from day 1 and never got fit...a fact for which the team was called out by Checketts.

Would RSL have had a better record and season if Ellinger had been fired 1/2 way through? Maybe, but it does not matter. Ellinger was hired because he is supposed to be a good evaluator of talent...(see U-17s)...not because he is a great tactician (see U-17s). He will get this offseason to fix the personnel problems...the bigger issue is to see how and whether the front office will get Ellinger the tactical/coaching help he obviously needs.

Hey, we have a European name...why not have a European set-up? The Coach (manager) has tons of control over personnel, and then the assistant coaches handle the training. We could do the same and then have the coaching staff handle the tactics, rather than Ellinger.

End of the day, I agree that Ellinger will not be fired...but it is obvious from Checkett's comments in the papers and directly to the players that he thinks he needs to step in and help...obviously, he thinks Ellinger was unable to get these points across to the team.

You know what, great for Chivas...It doesn't matter how well you play on the field, it matters how many balls are put in the net. Unfortunately, RSL wasn't able to finish their chances during the season.

One example: Take away the final score from the stat sheet for RSL vs. Colorado, one would think RSL had to have won that game. But, in reality they lost. The only line that matters is the SCORE.

I saw the highlights of the Chivas/Metros match. Chivas had LOTS of chances to score, but didn't FINISH. No points for close goals. No points for ball possession. Metros even had a couple CLOSE goals. When it comes down to the final tally...Metros - 2 Chivas - ZERO.

I agree with much of what you had to say. I hope things can be fixed and the team can get better results next year. I guess we will see what kind of coach Ellinger is by what he does during the offseason with new acquisations, which players are sent packing, and the results RSL has next year.

Frustrating isn't it...

[Old Ska]

Originally Posted by SoccerPrime

Chivas USA overall record for 2005
4-23-6

Under Rongen
1-8-1
4 pts out of 30

Under Westerhoff
3-17-5
14 pts out of 75

Wow, what a difference 🙄

Pardon the rough math, but isn't that somewhere around a 50% improvement?