Keep Ellinger

SoccerPrime · 05-02-2006, 05:30 AM

I had some good emails with Mike Lewis of the Trib, and he seems to think (and I agree) that until attendance starts dropping at RES, Ellinger is safe.

He thinks that RSL FO won't pull any trigger unless attendance starts to drop (due to poor on-field performance).

To coin a term of RSL FM's from BS, that really is the metrics by which Ellinger is judged by (at least with the FO).

Something to think about.

knowwonnose · 05-02-2006, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoccerPrime

I had some good emails with Mike Lewis of the Trib, and he seems to think (and I agree) that until attendance starts dropping at RES, Ellinger is safe.

He thinks that RSL FO won't pull any trigger unless attendance starts to drop (due to poor on-field performance).

That's a great point! I've tried to say it, but not was succinctly as you just did. The FO brought Ellinger for the long-term development of young players. However, everyone wants to see some wins along the way. But they aren't going to give up on the development of those players unless it hurts the bottom line (which will ultimately hurt the long-term plan). Thanks for clearing that thought up.

SoccerPrime · 05-02-2006, 06:35 AM

Long term development of young players?
Like Besagno and Watson? At this rate Ellinger will be fired before his grand experiment comes to pass. I can't imagine the FO is willing to wait that long for results.
For clarification please read Rover's signature.

knowwonnose · 05-02-2006, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoccerPrime

Long term development of young players?
Like Besagno and Watson? At this rate Ellinger will be fired before his grand experiment comes to pass. I can't imagine the FO is willing to wait that long for results.
For clarification please read Rover's signature.

I'm not sure what your objection is. You don't think the youth are developing? You don't think that the reserve team is showing signs of improvement? You don't think the hope of the team is in players like Mehdi, Johnson, Harris and yes Besagno and Watson? What's wrong with Watson? He's hurt. Injuries happen. Besagno, we knew would be a 3+ year project. (Sure he wasn't the best 1st round draft pick, but that's another topic.)

So what's your objection? You're one that I've appreciated most of your oppinions. Your reaction shocked me.

AreliusIV · 05-02-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoccerPrime

I had some good emails with Mike Lewis of the Trib, and he seems to think (and I agree) that until attendance starts dropping at RES, Ellinger is safe.

He thinks that RSL FO won't pull any trigger unless attendance starts to drop (due to poor on-field performance).

To coin a term of RSL FM's from BS, that really is the metrics by which Ellinger is judged by (at least with the FO).

Something to think about.

Once attendance starts dropping, its too late...

SoccerPrime · 05-02-2006, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowwonnose

I'm not sure what your objection is. You don't think the youth are developing? You don't think that the reserve team is showing signs of improvement? You don't think the hope of the team is in players like Mehdi, Johnson, Harris and yes Besagno and Watson? What's wrong with Watson? He's hurt. Injuries happen. Besagno, we knew would be a 3+ year project. (Sure he wasn't the best 1st round draft pick, but that's another topic.)

So what's your objection? You're one that I've appreciated most of your oppinions. Your reaction shocked me.

I'm sorry that I disappoint you, but I am just calling it how I see it.

I have never agreed with using the "build a youth program for future success" for RSL. I have always been upset by Ellinger picking Besagno over O'Rourke. Was Besagno the right choice? I didn't think so then, I don't think so now.

Sure academies work in EPL. But I don't think MLS is ready right now to use the youth academy system for success in 2006. In 2010 maybe, but not today. Unfortunately, if RSL is planning for success in 2010 and not before, there might not be anyone around to watch their championship run.

Could I be wrong? Of course. In my theory, Watson & Besagno become "youth developments" by playing in regular games, not just in reserves. Which seems to be the only place we will ever see them.

Burninator · 05-02-2006, 09:23 AM

My beef with Ellinger: I guess the most frustrating thing is that I keep seeing Ellinger do these seemingly stupid things, playing players out of position, making "interesting" substitutions, not playing truly talented players, etc. and then I say, "Hey, I'm no pro soccer coach. What the hell do I know? Maybe Ellinger actually knows what he's doing!" Then I look at the Western Conference table and I start to cry.

As some (Mr. Scholesy, sir) have pointed out, we don't attend practices, we don't attend the closed-door meetings, we don't know exactly what is going on in John's head, and we have several players on record as actually praising the coaching staff. That's a rather scathing indictment of the players, but also indirectly of the coaches.

A coach must rule his team, but not necessarily with an iron fist. He has to be competent, he has to be a LEADER, and he needs to lead by example as much as is feasibly possible. Ellinger is like the captain of a ship, and RSL's players are subordinate to him. John Ellinger should be taking the blame, along with the responsibility, upon himself. He should not be calling players out and criticizing them. He should be taking responsibility for righting his ship and sailing forth triumphantly to do battle with his enemies. It is HIS JOB to make sure that his team is SHIP SHAPE and ready to do battle at a moments notice. Does he have the resources? Does he have the necessary talent at his disposal? Does he have command of his ship? Is his ship MLS worthy?

Yes. Yes. Maybe. Apparently not. Don't blame the players (publicly), John. Let the players blame themselves. You're the one who's ultimately responsible.

⚽ Geoff
-----------------------
REGULATORS! Mount up!

"There's no sense putting guys on the field that won't work," "It's criminal that we didn't get that effort at home."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635203675,00.html

"We're not going to get through this if we don't work. We need an honest effort every game, especially at home."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635203689,00.html

"We have to get points in every game; that's just the way it has to be."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635202888,00.html

"It's important for our fans, it's important for the players, for the franchise,"
http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_3765754

"Our outside backs have to play quicker,"
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635198980,00.html

knowwonnose · 05-02-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoccerPrime

I'm sorry that I disappoint you, but I am just calling it how I see it.

I have never agreed with using the "build a youth program for future success" for RSL. I have always been upset by Ellinger picking Besagno over O'Rourke. Was Besagno the right choice? I didn't think so then, I don't think so now.

Sure academies work in EPL. But I don't think MLS is ready right now to use the youth academy system for success in 2006. In 2010 maybe, but not today. Unfortunately, if RSL is planning for success in 2010 and not before, there might not be anyone around to watch their championship run.

Could I be wrong? Of course. In my theory, Watson & Besagno become "youth developments" by playing in regular games, not just in reserves. Which seems to be the only place we will ever see them.

My argument has never been whether their doing the right or wrong thing. I have always just said what their doing, and why people shouldn't expect too much too soon. I do feel that we need to be patient in this situation. He's not going anywhere too soon.

Aerick · 05-02-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burninator

My beef with Ellinger: I guess the most frustrating thing is that I keep seeing Ellinger do these seemingly stupid things, playing players out of position, making "interesting" substitutions, not playing truly talented players, etc. and then I say, "Hey, I'm no pro soccer coach. What the hell do I know? Maybe Ellinger actually knows what he's doing!" Then I look at the Western Conference table and I start to cry.

As some (Mr. Scholesy, sir) have pointed out, we don't attend practices, we don't attend the closed-door meetings, we don't know exactly what is going on in John's head, and we have several players on record as actually praising the coaching staff. That's a rather scathing indictment of the players, but also indirectly of the coaches.

A coach must rule his team, but not necessarily with an iron fist. He has to be competent, he has to be a LEADER, and he needs to lead by example as much as is feasibly possible. Ellinger is like the captain of a ship, and RSL's players are subordinate to him. John Ellinger should be taking the blame, along with the responsibility, upon himself. He should not be calling players out and criticizing them. He should be taking responsibility for righting his ship and sailing forth triumphantly to do battle with his enemies. It is HIS JOB to make sure that his team is SHIP SHAPE and ready to do battle at a moments notice. Does he have the resources? Does he have the necessary talent at his disposal? Does he have command of his ship? Is his ship MLS worthy?

Yes. Yes. Maybe. Apparently not. Don't blame the players (publicly), John. Let the players blame themselves. You're the one who's ultimately responsible.

⚽ Geoff
-----------------------
REGULATORS! Mount up!

"There's no sense putting guys on the field that won't work," "It's criminal that we didn't get that effort at home."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635203675,00.html

"We're not going to get through this if we don't work. We need an honest effort every game, especially at home."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635203689,00.html

"We have to get points in every game; that's just the way it has to be."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635202888,00.html

"It's important for our fans, it's important for the players, for the franchise,"
http://www.sltrib.com/search/ci_3765754

"Our outside backs have to play quicker,"
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635198980,00.html

OK. Here's a scenario:

You're at work, and based on the poor performance of the team that you lead on a particular project, your job is being questioned at the higher levels of management, and by your clients. Despite what you feel are your best efforts, certain members of your team are screwing up and causing the whole project to go down in flames. You can't really fire them, because they're under contract, and management would have a really hard time finding appropriate replacements in such a short time span and that could make an impact before the projects deadlines.

When asked by clients and management about the projects performance, what do you say?

SoccerPrime · 05-02-2006, 01:29 PM

In this scenario; are we Pastorino or Ellinger?

Plus I would add to the scenario that even though you actually did fire half of the team after the first year of the project, your getting the same (or worse) results.