Ellinger has to go

devNull · 05-01-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramone

3. He is playing players in the wrong positions. If everyone else can see it why cant he. He is too nice to bench players for others who might not be as experience but who do a much better job all-around.

4. Kreis is carrying this team with his intensity and work rate. He shouldnt have to. A good coach would demand this from all of his players.

Well said. I was pretty upset about us picking up Douglas in the offseason. I have completely turned around. He may be our best offseason acquisition. Tough as nails and a pretty good soccer IQ. Why again is he playing in such an attacking position? I think he makes a great defensive mid. He is tough and can get forward and be dangerous when the opportunity presents itself. His strength isn't creating in the offensive half of the field. I am not sure who to blame about not actually doing what we needed to do to fill the holes. Maybe there were too many to fill, but playing these guys out of position isn't helping our cause. There is some sort of learning curve to a new position even if you are a professional.

Is Kreis also carrying the coaching staff? I loved it when about midway through the 1st half on Saturday he just turned and screamed at the bench. I couldn't quite make out what he said, but he wasn't exactly happy. Kreis is a great leader and a class act. He can't be the coaching staff as well.

One more question...do these guys actually practice together during the week? It just seems like we have an inordinate amount of miscommunicated passes. Something needs to be done about that.

I_Believe_In_Kreis · 05-01-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowwonnose

1) Ellinger wasn't brought to RSL to make the team a winner in two years.

Wow, now there's a coaching job I'd take. Two years and we still don't have to win? Where do I sign?

Quote:

2) Who would replace him now?

Robin Fraser. Brian Kamler. Peter Mellor. Kreis could be player/coach (it works in MISL, right?). Sure these guys don't have MLS coaching experience, but that didn't stop us with Ellinger. Besides, if the coach doesn't have to win after two years on the, I think guys would be lining up (see my answer to #1).

Quote:

3) RSL is coming out of a difficult stretch of games.

Does Chivas on the road, NY & LA at home count as a difficult stretch? NY had three points coming into our game. Going back to 2004 the Galaxy were 1-17 away from HDC. 1-17!!! If we can't win over LA at home, show me a game we should win. And don't say Columbus - they just beat the same LA team in LA.

Zathras · 05-01-2006, 12:56 PM

Expansion teams in every sport usually have a dreadful record in their first five years.

I've seen the statistics (I'll see if I can dig them up) and Ellinger's not doing any worse than the average.

AreliusIV · 05-01-2006, 01:08 PM

Ellinger's doing horrible. Don't kid yourself. Two years in and no road win. See the following link to see just how bad RSL is doing.

AreliusIV · 05-01-2006, 01:27 PM

Even people around MLS are clammoring for Ellinger's head.

Rover · 05-01-2006, 01:36 PM

He said it about as well as it can be said. I was in DC during the Rongen/Hudson years, and the arguments sounded much the same on both sides as we're hering now in Utah.

Eventually the FO in DC had to finally admit they'd made a mistke with each coach. So they finally hire Nowak and the rest is history. Very good history for DC United.

Aerick · 05-01-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AreliusIV

Ellinger's doing horrible. Don't kid yourself. Two years in and no road win. See the following link to see just how bad RSL is doing.

Two years in? I don't get your math.

SoccerPrime · 05-01-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathras

Expansion teams in every sport usually have a dreadful record in their first five years.

I've seen the statistics (I'll see if I can dig them up) and Ellinger's not doing any worse than the average.

I would love to see those statistics.

Besides the Bucs in the 70s, has any expansion team never win a away game by their second year?

AreliusIV · 05-01-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rover

He said it about as well as it can be said. I was in DC during the Rongen/Hudson years, and the arguments sounded much the same on both sides as we're hering now in Utah.

Eventually the FO in DC had to finally admit they'd made a mistke with each coach. So they finally hire Nowak and the rest is history. Very good history for DC United.

Classic case study of how the coach influences the team's performance.

knowwonnose · 05-01-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Believe_In_Kreis

Wow, now there's a coaching job I'd take. Two years and we still don't have to win? Where do I sign?

We don't? I think RSL won 5 last year. Besides the youth is the comparison point and last I checked, there seems to be some really nice talent developing. Mehdi, Johnson, Harris, Nolly, etc. I think our reserve team is undefeated if I recall. Soon you'll see these players working there way into the crucial roles more and more. Don't be impatient and don't tell me that 1.15 years is long enough to be call "we have been patient." I'm afraid most people arguing for his dismissal are from this young "I want to have it now generation." You CAN'T have everything right now.

Further, my argument was that is not the right time to fire Ellinger not that he has done a great job bringing wins to Salt Lake. Don't mix up objectives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Believe_In_Kreis

Robin Fraser. Brian Kamler. Peter Mellor. Kreis could be player/coach (it works in MISL, right?). Sure these guys don't have MLS coaching experience, but that didn't stop us with Ellinger. Besides, if the coach doesn't have to win after two years on the, I think guys would be lining up (see my answer to #1).

Go back and read my original post, because, apparently, you didn't really read it. None of the names you give me provide a lot of confidence as someone with more prooven, long-term evidence of success in the MLS. That was my key point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_Believe_In_Kreis

Does Chivas on the road, NY & LA at home count as a difficult stretch? NY had three points coming into our game. Going back to 2004 the Galaxy were 1-17 away from HDC. 1-17!!! If we can't win over LA at home, show me a game we should win. And don't say Columbus - they just beat the same LA team in LA.

Go back and read my post again, because, apparently, you didn't really read it. The Chivas sucked, but I can't believe that anyone would have staked the season on winning the opened before a raucous crowed on the road no matter who it was against. Again, NY should have been a win and in every way accept the scoreboard it was a very good game for RSL. LA, while playing poorly in some earlier games is the MSL cup champs. You can't base the season on that loss either.

Still more importantly, look at the goals of the organization. Win 1 this year, or 10 this year, or 15 this year, it isn't realistic to assume that this is going to be a team in the upper half of the MLS. Chivas isn't going to be either. The rules that these two teams came in under just don't allow for that kind of success this early. Don't compare to unrealistic facts. Other expansion teams that had early success did so in the 2nd and 3rd year of the league, when, in reality, all teams were expansion teams.

Btw, you may believe in Kreis, but if he were to take over the team this year (which he is way too smart to do) you'd be calling for his head before the season was over. You don't seem patient enough to let a team work out its long term plan.